6 x 10 Norfolk Southern N scale Layout

davidgray1974 Apr 17, 2011

  1. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    Looking good David!:thumbs_up:

    You may want to consider using only #6 turnouts on the mainline, including spurs coming off the mainline. It will give you a more prototypical appearance and allow higher speeds through the switches.[​IMG]

    Well done![​IMG]

    Jerry
     
  2. davidgray1974

    davidgray1974 TrainBoard Member

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    Ok gang. Have an idea for the yard and wanted to bounce this off you guys. I was thinking of making the yard an interchange for CSX and NS with a double crossover in the middle connecting the two. What do you guys think? Any other yard ideas would be great as well.
     

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  3. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    I like it though I had to take a 2nd look. My thoughts:

    • The double crossover in the yard seems "forced". It really "should not" be there. Then again there is nothing wrong with it.
    • You do have plenty of space for an engine terminal.
    • An interchange track could be run off the main, cross the spur on the bottom right and lead to the lower left or you could use the spur as an interchange track / industry.
    Still, I like it just the way it is.
     
  4. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    I agree that the crossover is forced - you've used it because it's available.

    I've attached the yard I made for Steve using inside turnouts, which is in a similar space to what you have. The other option - depending on how much storage you want - is to pinwheel the lead. Also, what are your ideas for an engine terminal - if any?
     

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  5. davidgray1974

    davidgray1974 TrainBoard Member

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    I agree that I am forcing the crossover because it is available, but am willing to not use it to keep the integrity of realistic railroad. I have come up with a yard using the current configuration but added an engine terminal to the far right side. Possibly putting a engine shed to the bottom or top and putting a sanding area opposite.

    I am thinking for now to use the bottom right spur for an industry, but of course nothing is set in stone at the moment.

    Let me know what you would change or keep. Thanks again for your help!! Always much appreciated!! :tb-biggrin:
     

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  6. davidgray1974

    davidgray1974 TrainBoard Member

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    Like Grey One and yourself commented, I did put the crossover in the yard because of its availability. I am willing to give it up for the sake of keeping my railroad as realistic as possible.

    I really like this idea that you came up with. I had played around with something similar, with the loop around the yard, but it gave me very little space for a yard given I only have 6 feet to play with. Let me give it a whirl and see what I can come up with that works pretty much in the same way as the one you have here.

    I am very impressed with all the ideas everyone here comes up with. Its a very fun and creative atmosphere. Please keep all the fresh and informative ideas coming. I am very excited about getting this RR started!!!

    Thanks again!!! I will post an update soon!!!:thumbs_up:
     
  7. davidgray1974

    davidgray1974 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks Jerry! You were absolutely right! Switching out the #4 turnout made a big difference in how smooth the trains came around that turn. It definately looks more prototypical.:thumbs_up:
     
  8. davidgray1974

    davidgray1974 TrainBoard Member

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    Ok. Here is a new yard I have come up with. The far left are the arrival departure tracks with an engine escape and the center portion are the classification tracks. I have also included an area in the top right for a train maintenace area. Thoughts, suggestions?
     

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  9. Specter3

    Specter3 TrainBoard Member

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    railroad

    Hello again

    [​IMG]

    On this in the upper left there is a straight that goes off the top that is the departing CSX line. There are two more spurs in the upper town to give a little more operation for what in my mind is a local that solely works the upper town and returns to the yard. A second local leaves the yard and works the industires in the middle of the layout. I moved the switch for the lower right industry on around to the far left. From here it descends as it crosses the river, and continues down to a level maybe 2-3 inches lower than the rest of the layout. This lower section would be served by a third separate train from the yard. With the significant backing move down the branch it would need a shoving platform(what they call a caboose these days LOL) if you are modelling a modern time frame. You could also run a line up from the junction of the branch crossing the yard lead and headed off the layout. This would depict a former railroad that NS bought. You could even make it just ties and have the rails removed for interest.

    HTH
     
  10. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well, Specter, it all depends on what David wants for operations. Your thoughts may be a little too ambitious - and they are starting to get too "spaghetti-bowl" in my opinion.

    David - I've pretty much only been looking at your yard, but keep your eye on the right edge, running the track that close will be disastrous unless some kind of wall is ther to block anything from falling off in the case of a derailment. I'd leave a couple inches at least to the edge.

    As for your yard, it's about 2/3rds of the way there. You're now at the "planning for operation" phase. How do you envision running the layout? How many operators? What do you want to do with the operations? How big are your trains going to be (in terms of locomotives and cars)? Answering these questions in detail will drive the final outcome of your yard.

    For example, a train pulls out and goes about its business, then how does it get back to the yard? Does it shove in? Or does it run-around and pull in? Do you want to let a train run loops on the main while you classify in the yard? If so you probably need a bigger yard lead (assuming the "main" is the top track).

    Your class yard and engine facility are basically fine, but your A/D tracks are not. The crossover should be between the A/D tracks, and the tail should be long enough for your longest planned engine consist.

    Step back and think about some of these things for a bit then look at your plan again. You might see some changes you'll want to make.
     
  11. davidgray1974

    davidgray1974 TrainBoard Member

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    Hey Harron,

    Thanks for the feedback. In regards to the right edge, I know based on XtrkCad they look close, but in actuality, there is a 1.5 to 2in buffer from the edge. For some reason, XtrkCad makes it look closer.

    I'm looking at having 2 or 3 operators on this layout, but I'm imagining majority of the time it will just be myself operating the layout. Operations is pretty new to me giving I have always had layouts that were "roundy", so I'm still researching how to make it interesting and realistic. I know that may not be the norm when it comes to planning a layout, but this is how I've come to where I am now.

    I was thinking about having 2 or 3 (maybe more) engine consists running on the layout, picking up and dropping off cars. I guess with the size of the layout, all the trains would be considered locals, except for a few through trains, and would report directly back to the yard once operations were completed. While classifying the yard, I would allow trains to run until sorting was completed.

    Entering the yard I had thought would happen by backing into A/D area and having a switcher break them down and classify them. The top track on the layout would act as the drill track, coming from the yard and the line below that would be the main.

    What would you change to the class tracks and engine facility given your knowledge and experience? Operationally, do you think what I have so far would work? What are your suggestions on entering the yard?

    Again I am still pretty new to all this, but I'm gaining a ton of info from everyone on here. All help is much appreciated.

    I have also added another snapshot of the layout changing the A/D tracks.

    Thanks,

    David
     

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  12. Specter3

    Specter3 TrainBoard Member

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    layout

    Harron

    I always dream the fine line between more track and stuff to do and spaghetti. Ultimately though I am partial to spaghetti. In my mind the upper section is urban or industrial in nature and lots of track and buildings that would look normal there. I imagine the backdrop is full of flats with a road or two penetrating the urban jungle. On the bottom, the spur to the lower right is already there I just pushed it's connection on around to give an idea that it is separate from the area in the center. Depending on the industries there in the middle there is car space for 10-12 cars. That looks to be the max train length. There will have to be two trains to switch both the inner and outer industries. I just thought some separation in elevation would give some appearance of a separate place worthy of it's own train. Plus the backing move would add a interesting but reality based twist.

    I would still say that the crossing I put on my first suggestion and interchange should be on the top section. I would build a csx train in the yard run it all the way around to work the interchange at the top after making a complete loop and then run around and return back the way it came. Yes it goes through all the rest of the area but that is just what I would do.

    Ultimately it is your railroad and what you want to do is what rules the day. I have no real layout, just some Ntrak and oNetrak modules, so I dream operations. There is method to my madness.

    Anyway, have fun!
     
  13. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    Specter - you've got some good ideas. In my opinion they are "raw" and need some refinement - some could go a step further, some could use some cutting down. My perspective includes 6+ years of actual railroad experience. Like you said, ultimately it's up to the layout owner, and that's the beauty of model railroading.

    David - Here's what I see possible for your layout. You're looking at 3 operators that can operate simultaneously - a yard job and 2 mainline jobs. Building a bit on one of Spectre's ideas, your main switching in the middle should be a place the local can go in and work clear of the mainline while a road job operates over the main. This would be the so-called "industrial track" and they usually have a lead and a runaround.

    For interchanges there are 3 ways they are done in real life.
    1 - Train interchange. The train runs through to the connecting road to a certain point - usually a yard. The incoming power is then turned back with the interchange in the other direction.
    2 - Yard interchange. Two railroads work the same yard and shuffle cars between each other with yard jobs.
    3 - Siding interchange. Two railroad's mainlines pass near each other and there is a siding (or small yard) connecting the two mains where trains from each railroad drop and pickup cars from each other.

    For your railroad my suggestion is using #3 with the siding on the lower right.

    Your yard can be both backed into and pulled into, I'd leave the crossover in the A/D track for that reason. If you were exclusively backing in you could leave it out.

    So here's a basic operating plan (which can be mixed up or done with anywhere from 1 to 3 operators)...

    Interchange train is made up on A/D track, cars are spotted in inbound interchange. Interchange job goes out, yard job starts building local. Local goes out and works the "industrial track". Interchange comes in while yard job makes up road train. Road train goes out and makes several revolutions, works "high-priority" industries on the top of the layout. Local returns, road job returns, yard job makes up next day's interchange train. End day.

    Have you thought anymore about your max train length? In one of your pictures I counted 11 cars and the train looked to be about the right size for your layout.
     
  14. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    So here's what I came up with.

    Reconfigured the yard, enginehouse and A/D tracks. This allows the switcher to continue working while trains can arrive or depart - a dedicated yard lead. The only time the switcher crosses over to the A/D yard (via the High Switch) is to set out a built train or pull one in for classification. Note the lead right of the High Switch is roughly the same size of the A/D tracks.

    The new enginehouse and lead allows power to come in/out from either direction and to be switched as need. Outbound/inbound power then only needs a brief trip over the yard lead to clear the High Switch and get on the train/to the house - providing minimal switching interruption.

    So now the "top" of the layout has a dedicated yard lead (that can serve as a siding or departure track if needed), a mainline, and a passing siding with two "hot" industries off it that can be serviced by road jobs. You can configure the industries as you see fit, I just made them uniform for now.

    Off the top right the industrial track starts in, with it's own runaround. Again, industries can be adjusted however you like, but this is a great area for a local to pull in and switch while a train still works the main.

    The bottom has a two-track interchange, with planned solid train operation. Cars start on one track in the interchange (should hold about 9 cars). Interchange train comes out, drops their entire train on the other track (again about 9 cars) and picks up the inbound interchange for delivery to the yard.

    This plan should allow solid 3-person operation, but can be just as easily run by 1 person.
     

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  15. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    David,

    I like Harron’s latest design.:thumbs_up::thumbs_up:

    Your mainline is running through the “diverging route” of two switches. The diverging route is taken at much slower speeds in the prototype. For this reason the prototype mainline is not designed this way, the exception being an intersecting branch line.

    I have attached a partial design example that performs the same functions in a prototypical way.[​IMG]

    Jerry

     

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  16. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    True it is more prototypical, but due to space constraints in this case I left the main through the diverging route - rather than add a 4th track to the width of the top. The other option would have been to make the siding the main, and the main the A/D lead and come into the middle of the tangent - but you eliminate the siding in this case.
     
  17. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    Harron, outstanding - almost - makes me want to change mine, almost. A superb tradeoff with Proto vs Realty. Works for me.
     
  18. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    David,

    In keeping with Harron's latest design while holding to prototypical standards I have come up with another option to consider.[​IMG] It eliminates the run around and places the spurs directly off the mainline. Since these are both trailing point spurs the run around is not required. This option also gives you more fluid curves and possibly broader curves. [​IMG]

    This is just food for thought.

    Jerry
     

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  19. Harron

    Harron TrainBoard Supporter

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    Yep - that's what I said in words.:thumbs_up:
     
  20. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    I appreciate that we can feed each other ideas, that is what makes TB so great![​IMG]

    Jerry
     

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