Last year Chris Schmuck made a fantastic conversion of a Mikado Marklin into an Erie Berkshire. He etched the boiler details to wrap around a brass tube, and etched many parts to flesh out the model. After several attempts he ultimately powered the mechanism with a coreless motor inside the boiler/cab. That amazing conversion stayed with me and I've reflected on it often. Steam in Z is very limited, but with the kind of talent Chris has, other locomotive types could also be possible. I schemed to buy one of the new Rio Grande Challengers coming out soon from AZL, but decided i just couldn't manage the $1500+ cost. But one locomotive that frequented my Rio Grande books was the M68 class 4-8-4 Northern type, numbered 1800-1805. This locomotive class was still running until about 1956 -- well into the diesel transition. Maybe that, or one like it, could be do-able. I floated an inquiry to Chris about obtaining a copy of his etchings, so that i might try something on my own (even it was more similar to Chris's Erie loco than a Rio Grande one). He was most gracious and willing to send me the parts, and in fact redrew them to match my exact Rio Grande series! It is a work in progress, now, as i get some time here and there. I would be working on SD70Ace's but like the rest of you, I am in need of parts from Tim, who is limited by work and time. The ACes will come, I'm sure, but in the mean time I had an opportunity that wouldn't wait, so I took it. The first hurdle in the conversion was to marry the front of a Marklin Pacific chassis (that supports the 4 wheel leading truck) to the Marklin Mikado chassis. I accomplished this by carefully cutting a "step" onto the mikado chassis which matched a step in the leading truck part. Once it was all lined up i drilled and tapped for a #90 screw though one side and epoxy/screwed the assembly together. The casting of the pilot and cylinders (shown) I've had for years since Nn3 days -- I was surprised to find that it is a direct copy (casting) of the marklin pilot, with a few details added. While it would have worked out well for adding extra weight, i probably won't use it, as drilling out the holes for the side rod, etc. has proved too difficult. The boiler wrap and soldering onto the brass tube was another new experience, but it came out ok, i think (there is one troublesome spot). Chris also etched the correct cab for the M68 -- an all weather type cab as is often seen on Canadian Steam Locomotives. I think (but i'm not certain) that this was the only steam locomotive type on the Rio Grande that had such an all weather cab. To reinforce the cab for later detailing and attachment I cut up a plastic N scale steam locomotive shell i had in my spare parts box, and removed the cabfrom that, working it to fit inside the new etched cab. I added low temp to the boiler (a whole new experience for me) to give it weight and traction. Chris said his Berkshire pulls great with the lead he added to his conversion. I'm obviously expecting to see the same result. Because the original side rods ended up being too long for the new setup, Chris obliged by drawing and etching new ones for me. In addition he drew up some valve gear detail, similar to what he had done on his own model, except these are specific for the M68! Thanks again (and again and again) Chris. The picture also shows the finished (but unpainted) tender. Yes, the tender is correct for the M68 and the parts were drawn up and provided by Chris. Boiler details are a challenge, as there is little out there that translates to steam in Z scale. I cut down an N scale soft metal dome of the right diameter, and shaped plastic parts to make the sand dome. The stack is cut down from the same plastic N scale steam loco shell from which the cab parts came. In the next post I'll show some of the work on the tender. dave f.
Dave, Awesome... I am sure all the steam fans are drooling.... well I am.. the cab looks sooooo nice, Can you post close-up pics of the cab. I am looking forward for the pics and updates here as you progress. Kim
This is my favorite subject, home-made locomotives. Congratulations , and keep posting the photos. I'm wondering, Chris does his etching in his home or farm it out? Lajos
Chris does his own etching. I think he started with the kit from Micro-mark. Of course being able to use a CAD software is pretty important. i'm struggling to get a line drawn on my software. I've downloaded two different free programs that should do the job, but, again, i'm struggling to learn them. If i can get it going, i'll be following in Chris's footsteps and making great projects on my own. I'm VERY fortunate to have Chris's help and that he has been so generous with his time and skills to help me. dave f.
Yes Chris is a real genius when it comes to modeling with brass. I have a couple T Gauge RDC shells from Chris that I want to build soon. I just got my bubble etch tank in the mail yesterday, and want to try my hand at etching too!
Hey what's going on in here? ; ) Yeah Dave got me with this one. It should be a pretty massive locomotive when done and is a good bit bigger and longer than my Berkshire. So I couldn't resist. I etched at home http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/Etching it's all I know, but it makes due. They are all just flat sheets and any fab work is all David's handy work, it is very far from a "kit". Hopefully it will all work out, and looks like it is. Keep the pics coming. Can't wait to see her pullin' freight!
Very nice! I can't wait to see the finished result. I know from scratchbuilding some structures how great it feels to finish those. I can only imagine how good this scratchbuilt loco is gonna make you feel!
I etched at home http://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/Etching Chris, That is very inspiring... Kim
Me too! The 1800's were used for fast freight after the diesels bumped them off premium varnish trains. I would love to see them haul a long string of heavyweights in olive green... Might I suggest a green boiler jacket? I'd have to search, but I could have sworn that one or more 1800s wore a rich deep green boiler jacket coat of paint. Sure was classy.
hi hemi, there is an interesting site where a guy is making G scale versions of the M68. I'm using it to get the details down -- lots of good photos and references to work with. He is painting his 1800 in green (not dark enough green, but "pretty" nonetheless). Cumberland Model Engineering i don't know if i will do it in green boiler jacket. i want a hard used 1804 and most of my photos show a weathered paint (seemingly black). if you can sustantiate something else for me, i'll consider it. thus far i'm think of painting it grimy black over all, except for the silver on the fire box and front - then lots of soot on top. it's going to be pretty hard to paint with all the tiny details needing touch up -- and in Z a few brush strokes to fix something is like painting globs of paint with a broom. so whatever is simple and right is what i'll do. keeping it simple. i don't have any green varnish to speak of (except for an RPO which i built for my Yampa Valley Mail). Otherwise four stripe silver/black/gold passenger cars will be the order of the day. Freight is what i want to do more, but i should have build a 1500 in that case. I just want it to turn our nice and pull whatever i put behind it. thanks for looking in, dave f. canon city, co
A 1700 would be a great fast freight engine as well. They also had classy lines. Nothing says 'Grande more than an M-67 Mountain type, though... Even a simple engine black loco would look great, with the graphite smokebox, and all. Silver trim on the running boards, wheel tires, firebox and everything. Just my opinion, but I would build one that portrayed these fine steeds at the height of their careers, pulling crack passenger trains, and fast freight. Daily polished by loving hands, not filthy and neglected, as they became at the end of steam.
thanks hemi, we did consider the 1700 M64 but they didn't have the straight boiler, which was much easier to make. did you ever find out if the M68s had the dark green boiler jackets? what color green would that be? does floquil make one? on the one hand i agree that the engines were certainly sleek and beautiful in their hay day, but so many model locomotives are perfectly clean that they all appear almost toylike in their newness. for realism sake (and for the eye to enjoy the difference) i would want to weather it up a bit. i was told by a painter friend (at caboose) that only shadows are true black and i should use grimy black for my black so that there are contrasts to be seen. as i look at the pictures in my books of the 1800s they all looked pretty BLACK-black and shiny, but is that just the photo tricking the eye? i guess in the end no one is going to say "that's wrong". but i do want to do it the best i can the first time. BTW: you must have a PH.D. in Rio Grande history. I am amazed at the many (and subtle) details that you know (from many previous posts, especially on the D&RGW thread on this trainboard site). later, dave f.
David, Nice work! I have a project using some of Chris' etchings as well. Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of time to get back to it lately. But, don't let the curved boiler scare you off. I'm working on a highly "stylized" Pennsy Decapod. Stylized because i'm using a marklin decapod for the chassis, so the driver size and spacing are off by quite a bit, and I had to enlarge the firebox to fit the motor in it. But, for the boiler, I used telescoping brass tubing in various sizes to make the rough shape of the boiler. After soldering the sections in place, I used JB Weld to build up and fill in the contours, then sanded to shape. With the boiler jacket in place, very few rivets or seems were highly visible, anyway, so no brass wrap is needed on the curved section. The only ones that stood out were the ones around the smokebox, which is straight, and thus easy to apply a wrap to. I really have to get back to work on this. Dan s.
a great conversion, dan. those pennsys were sure big. i think i read somewhere (don't know if it's true) that pennsy locos had such large fireboxes because of the grade of coal they burned. i guess they needed the extra heating surface to bring up the water temp. it's going to be a beauty. i'm not a big steam modeler, mostly because it's not my era, but i've always loved steam. i got into Z tangentially through Nn3 because i love narrow gauge and i was an N scaler. i think a lot of people's excitement factor would go up if more steam were available. Chris is our conduit to "steam dreams" in the same way i think Robert Ray's lazer cut car kits helped a lot of us get a start on some unavailable (then) , but desired, rolling stock. now an increasing number of others are giving us the benefits of their skills with more new structures, models, etc. the satisfaction level goes sky high when you get to make something that wasn't available before. i'm happy to know that i'm not the only one who has benefitted from Chris's generousity. dave f.
Vol 2 #2 of the Prospector, page 5, says it is not known if any M-68 engines received the green boiler jackets, but they were ordered with that treatment. They were delivered in black/aluminum. Page 4 shares a "Standard Practice" document that prescribes dark olive green on the boiler jackets of all D&RGW engines. It was dated 01 Nov 1937. The locomotive black enamel that the M-68's were delivered in was likely a pure black, but tunnel service on the Moffat gave them a coating of soot that made them appear a dark graphite color. As for that color, a Pullman green? Maybe something lighter? Almost all the photos that would portray a Grande 4-8-4 in green jackets are black and white, since the M-64s were delivered in 1929. I would go with what looked good to my eye. Who's to say you're wrong? I'd do green boiler jackets, and a tri-color Moffat Tunnel/Royal Gorge "toilet seat" herald... As for the PhD, I wish. I just have a ton of books, magazines, and other resources that I tap into. If you're not already, I highly recommend subscribing to the Prospector magazine, the official RGM&HS pub.
as time permits i've been getting some things done on the 4-8-4. I made most of the left side boiler details, air cylinders, piping, and my make-shift elesco feedwater heater. i don't like the heater, but i don't see how i can do any better. chris made me valve gear details which are shown installed, but not painted up. his work is just amazing. i bent up hand rails for the cab doors and fitted those on. i worked for a long time bending fine wire for the right piping -- it extends the whole length of the running board in six lines. the soldering turned out poorly, the whole thing i must have had to redo 3 or 4 times. it was not fun. i hope when the paint goes on it will look ok, because i just don't see trying to do it again. the picture below shows how i started the soldering. another big milestone was mounting the 816 coreless motor. i made a motor-cradle that is attached to the old motor(mount). i was going to leave the gear on the shaft and try to mate the now motor up with it somehow, but with the real thing in hand i could see all my estimations of length and fit were in error. The motor HAD to go through the old shaft hole, and the gear had to be removed from the shaft and mounted on the end of the motor. it was a pain, but i think it will work better than new, now. you can see the new 816 in its cradle with the gear mounted on the motor's shaft. below you can see how the motor and chassi mate together. the motor fits inside the cab with almost an 1/8th of an inch of room to spare. it sits low (the top of the motor just comes up to the bottom of the cab window) -- which was a nice surprise, therefore an engineer will definitely be placed inside the cab window. i'm hoping the new Z2 DCC decoder will fit high up in the cab. it WILL fit in the cab in any case, but i hope it can be placed high enough that it doesn't show inside. we'll see when we get there. well, that's all i have to show for now. next comes a good ultrasonic cleaning of the chassis, and then reassembly to work out the bugs in the running mechanism. still more details to add to the boiler and a front plow to make. overall i think it's still going to turn out ok. dave f.
