3d printing

HemiAdda2d Jun 26, 2012

  1. zdrada69

    zdrada69 TrainBoard Member

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    John,
    There is a Polish company producing decals for Polish Railways as well as logos of Polish companies for trucks. You can find their shop here: http://www.kalkomanie.com/
    Unfortunately the only Z item is a set of Polish decals for Marklin German locomotives. You can repait using this set several steam and one diesel locomotive.
    I asked them to prepare some decals for PKP gondolas (2 axle and 4 axle). There are 3 different numbers for 2 axle and 3 numbers for 4 axle. The problem is that 4 axle are not very good - lettering is not sharp. This is probably the reason why they do not offer those decals on their page. Here are the results I got by repainting Marklin 4 axle gondolas and using those decals:

    IMG_3895.JPG

    IMG_3859.JPG
    In case you are interested please let me know on PRV - I can try to contact them privately.
     
  2. southernnscale

    southernnscale TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have been using shapeways for a long time now and have done lots of pieces and it not great for a business due to the fact of there prices in material are high and when trying to save money by cutting back on materiasl causes them to be too thin and hollow out as Jon said in his post! I have experiminted with the hand rails and when you just get to the point where they print good something happens and have to start all over again. I have done some really detailed pieces and they look great but some time the way they are set when printer leaves lines that have to be scraped off and you know with Z scale that is hard to do with out breaking. that also happens during cleaning. I use the FUD material (Frosted Ultra Detailed) because I get the best detail with this material and that it has the small Support and wall size. I though that if I could keep a record of sizes I do with model I could find a way to produce good models but then I find that the first model printed out and look great and the second time gets rejected. This is good with the Shapeways site because it shows what piece got rejected. But just because you fix this one rejection doesn't mean it will print because they don't completely check the model out if they find something they reject it and you fix then it get rejected again for another part and it goes on and on. I had one project I have five models and each one had it's own problem except for one this model was placed when printing to close to someone else model and the model I got had two parts that didn't even belong to my model but some on else and when trying to remove the part my model was damaged. I don't have replacement parts to repair plus pieces where missing. here are some printed with detail and the handrails are always the same size but one time they print like on this model but on another they are to small for support wires these are all Z scale projects the bucyrus Crane has moving parts also
    steam shovel (3).jpg IMG_2753.JPG IMG_4185.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
  3. Rocket Jones

    Rocket Jones TrainBoard Member

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    The building and tanks are very impressive!
     
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  4. Loren

    Loren TrainBoard Supporter

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    Walt has been and is doing some very nice pieces for me of which you will eventually see them when painted and installed.
    SW does seem to be a bit inconsistent with their checking and approving drawings, which sometimes drives Walt and almost me nuts at times. Walt can make things as thick as he wants, but the price zooms way up so he has to compromise and find satisfaction some where in the middle.

    Recently I had an issue with SW over something and they did do right by me, but we went back and forth a bit before the issue was settled in my favor. So, I can't fault SW since they do aim to please.
     
  5. ZFRANK

    ZFRANK TrainBoard Member

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    I have just received my latest updated Darby steel gondola from shapeways. :) This one has printed on ladders and brake wheel. I did not add switching steps. All is printed in 'extreme frosted detail'. 16um for each printed layer.
    Braces are printed on top and are to be installed later. I designed it this way, so I could add a brass weight to the body. These will become black with a red end as for PSCX coal gondolas which did run on the D&RGW. :)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    /Frank
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
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  6. SLSF Freak

    SLSF Freak Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    There may be a game changer coming with a new material Shapeways is offering. They announced it just a couple of days ago and right now only makers/designers can purchase items with it while they're collecting feedback from the community. I've ordered one of my shells last night so I can see for myself what this material will mean for us train guys! The sample shots they've provided look promising. It's less brittle than FUD, a little bit stronger and apparently much smoother contouring (although stepping is not completely eliminated)



    details: https://www.shapeways.com/materials/high-definition-acrylate?li=nav

    Cheers -Mike
     
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  7. Loren

    Loren TrainBoard Supporter

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    I hope this new material does improve the over all finish of our projects. This video they showed rather shows the inconsistency of SW's quality. If you're going to produce a new product and show it to the world, why not have the camera work reflect professionalism and put the camera on a tripod and get the shots in focus? Not impressed with their announcement, but hope their product is as good as they hint it may be.
     
  8. southernnscale

    southernnscale TrainBoard Supporter

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    As far as detail these 3D printed models can have realistic detail as like this two story house backhoe Bridge with brick textures and the trucks and other equipment.. I have even been able to add block and brick to some but it really depends on the printing! these are done in FUD material
    IMG_4183.JPG backhoe.jpg IMG_4008.JPG IMG_3539.JPG IMG_3532.JPG
     
  9. southernnscale

    southernnscale TrainBoard Supporter

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    One more to add this saddle tanker with operating water fill lid open and closes along with a brick bottom water tower with water tube can be raised and lowered if rigged. lot of details . IMG_4229.JPG
     
  10. Heay Equipment Designer

    Heay Equipment Designer TrainBoard Member

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    Loren I 100% agree with you. Its like a car commercial for a crappy looking cheap car, they never really show the car, just quick shots at extreme angles.... But there is one thing that could be a game changer. Each layer is cured one at a time as its laid down. That would eliminate the need for support material. Support material is what leaves that crystal textured surface on your FUD models. But if they dont let you dictate part orientation when you print it, your still not going to get to utilize the technology to anything close to its full potential. Best bet is to find a real rapid prototype vendor already using this process who allows you to dictate the part orientation when its printed. It will cost more then Shapeways but that is because you are paying for a real professional service and the results will show that...

    People have to remember Shapeways is the Walmart of rapid prototyping. That's not a bad thing but you dont go to Walmart to buy high end products because they only sell low end products.... I'm not saying the designs people are selling on Shapeways stores are low end by any means but since you cant dictate part orientation, it ruins the final product output quality every time or at the very least creates a ton of finish work... That is in total contradiction for a lot of rapid prototyping processes out there right now.... In many ways, shapeways is helping the industry but its also hurting it. People ordering the first time think they are going to get an injection molded looking product. And you can almost get that with FUD. But not if you have it printed at Shapeways...

    I'll also add its all about how you design your parts. There is this notion out there that you can just go design what you want and 3D printing will print out perfect parts with perfect quality surfaces... That is not the case at all... Like designing draft into plastic parts and understanding where and what a draft plane is, there is a lot to consider when designing rapid prototype parts if you want to get good quality prints. For example you cant design a boxcar shell as one part and expect a nice end result. Only one side of it will come out the way you want it to... The rest will look like crap.. And if they print it roof side down on the printer bed, your entire part will look like crap. The roof and all 4 sides need to all be separate parts and printed face up on the printer bed if you want to have parts that require little or no finishing work.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
  11. SLSF Freak

    SLSF Freak Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Regarding support material, keep in mind it's not just to keep uncured resin from drooping, it's also there to hold parts in place that are suspended in mid-air while in mid-print. Proper orientation can greatly reduce the need for support in some printing processes but may not eliminate it altogether. Hopefully this isn't just hot air, but Shapeways says they're looking into allowing designers to set orientation for these hi-resolution materials. I guess they already do for their pottery material so the technology is there for them to do it.

    For the new Shapeways material, the designers are starting to receive their first orders and reviewing the results. I should be getting my print on Monday. The prints definitely look better than FUD, but some initial quirks that will need to be addressed: sometimes warping/drooping, support structures not being completely cleaned from the model, and on some prints I've seen marks that look like tool marks possibly scratching the model while removing support structures. Shapeways was up front that these first few weeks will be a learning process for them so hopefully they'll be able to fix these shortcomings because man, these are some good looking prints otherwise! Being 100% honest though, without improving print consistency and fixing these quirks (droop and scuffs in particular) these would not be usable in our world. I think they can though.

    I'll post pics of mine when I get it next week!

    Cheers -Mike
     
  12. Heay Equipment Designer

    Heay Equipment Designer TrainBoard Member

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    So they are using support structures like in stereo lithography? That's a bummer.... Support structures are still way better then support material but that's still kind of a let down... I was hopping it would act like ABS extrusion printers. The surface quality is garbage but the ABS cures instantly so no support structure/material of any kind is needed. I hope they can get it together with this one... Warping, drooping, shifting details have all been on going problems with shapeways FUD. They have gotten a lot better but you can still get much better parts that are not warped or distorted in anyway and come to you almost perfectly clean. But it also will cost you 3 to 4 times as much... I think part of the problem (and the main stumbling block for them with part orientation in FUD from what I have read in their own forum) is that they have to rush and push as much thru as they can to keep the prices down. So hopefully that will not create many lasting problems with with this new process.

    Regardless, thanks for sharing this with us Mike. I am very critical of Shapeways but its only because I have seen first hand what other companies can do using the same printing processes like FUD. Back in the mid 90's when I got into this stuff, CNC time and stereo lithography where insanely expensive and so were most of the CAD programs to generate 3D parts. None of it was really available to general public unless you had a lot of cash to burn... But Shapeways has made this technology affordable and usable not just for the manufacturing prototype world but for everyone. Hats off to Shapeways for doing that. This really helps opens up the design world and that is a good thing.

    Thanks,

    -Jon
     
  13. ZFRANK

    ZFRANK TrainBoard Member

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    Printed by Shapeways in FXD (16um layers). Cleaned in an ultra sonic cleaner twice and just slightly sanded. Looks enough fluss for me after sanding.
    Hopefully I receive a another slightly changed print in 'black high definition acrylate' comming week.

    [​IMG]

    Next pictures show my sanding tools:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    /Frank
     
  14. Heay Equipment Designer

    Heay Equipment Designer TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Frank,

    next time you get parts from shapeways, try this experiment. Scrape the plastic instead of sanding it. It will take the support material right out of the corners and edges and hard to sand places in your model like it was butter... Scraping is also the best way to get any flat plastic surface smooth, especially anything that has ridges like the step marks from 3D printing and CNC machine tool marks left on plastic. You dont get a distorted wavy surface like you can with sanding. Best part, the scraper never wares down or gets loaded up with material like sandpaper does. I even highly recommend scraping off as much gunk and support material you can before you even doing an ultrasonic cleaning. You'll get a much better cleaning in the end. But you will still have to do a lot of scraping after the cleaning. I think you will find you can really get in the corners and you have a lot more fine control with scraping than sanding. The end result will be a much cleaner smooth model in a shorter time and with less aggravation.

    I like to use fine precision flat head screw drivers. They are very rigid and have almost sharp chisel like heads on them. so they make excellent scrapers. Like you, I also make my own tools. I made my own set of fine scrapers by grinding down the width of the heads on exacto knife chisel blades to make all different sizes. This works really well. Some of these scrapers are over 20 years old and they work as well as the first day I made them.

    chisel for shapways.jpg

    Thanks,

    -Jon Pope
     
  15. ZFRANK

    ZFRANK TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks Jon, I'll try that next time with a fxd print.

    /Frank
     
  16. southernnscale

    southernnscale TrainBoard Supporter

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    Here is another one just recieved this one hasn't been cleaned at all! right out of the box and a set of MTL roller bearing trucks placed on it brown in color. Set of gondola's IMG_4354.JPG
     
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  17. ZFRANK

    ZFRANK TrainBoard Member

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    Hi,

    I am still waiting for my HDA printed Darby gondola body. The first one was printed as the FXD design with detail parts on top ... printing failed...
    The 3d print of PSCX364 was also used to make a mold, 3 PU copies are still waiting for trucks.


    But see next FXD printed gondolas.
    PSCX 315 has printed on ladders and brakewheel. (switching steps are still etched).

    [​IMG]

    PSCX 364 (two rotory sides) has stainless steel etched ladders and brake wheel.
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. zdrada69

    zdrada69 TrainBoard Member

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    I have purchased Walter's steam shovel already mentioned in this thread. This model had to wait some time to find a place on my benchwork. The wheels were bought separately as well as people. Standing people are Merten and sitting one is Preiser. I hope you like the final result.

    IMG_0069.JPG
    IMG_0071.JPG
    IMG_0076.JPG

    IMG_0074.JPG
     
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  19. Kurt Moose

    Kurt Moose TrainBoard Member

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    WOW!! That is awesome!!!(y)(y)(y)
     
  20. Bourkinafasso

    Bourkinafasso TrainBoard Member

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    Guys,

    Is it somehow possible to buy .stl files instead of having items produced by shapeways?
    Having a file would allow me to have items professionally printed instead of Walmart style printed

    Thanks for your inputs.

    Envoyé de mon GT-I9195 en utilisant Tapatalk
     

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