3D printed Shells, what would you be most excited to see?

That will always remain to be the 'bugaboo' on RP efforts; the tradeoff between what could really be an accurate model, and the accommodations necessary to work with an existing mechanism. One of the reasons I 'don't' do some models as kits is simply because the mechanism parts, or the difficulty of assembly, or both, are too hard for me to take on on a regular basis or the parts are just not available from a reliable source. I've been bugged for years to do the Climax B (successful scratchbuild does not mean a successful kit) and I've spend the same number of years studying the Heisler trying to figure out a way to do a mechanism from available components.

I'm working with a forum member now on a concept on an RP shell of a highly desired prototype, but to make it work the prototype has to be shrunk in length a bit to fit on an existing mechanism. Doesn't appear to bother either one of us that much but we're very sure that it will get some people to pass. The beauty of RP is that you dont' have all that tooling investment and inventory to worry about, so I suspect we'll try it. My philosophy has literally been that if you can't find the mechanism (pretty much off the shelf or with minimal modifications or purchase) it's a no-go. In my book, if you can get a really good mech like an NW2, disassemble it and make some cuts on existing frames, reassemble it with no significant changes, and it works reliably, and the process is repeatable without the urge to hurl it across the room, that's still a good candidate.

I've got another one where you need parts from two different Japanese mechanisms, heavily modifying one and using only the wheels from a second; highly requested, repeatable, available, but the total cost plus an etched-metal kit is looking like it would be relatively high. Still debating that one.

I'm always watching the new announcements (particularly out of Japan) trying to figure out what I can/could do with a chassis. My resin kits started out based upon '101 used for a Kato 11-105' and still are. I've chopped them, whacked them, stretched them, repowered them, and produced three different kits. Same with the Tomytec's, one for Atlas GP's, and one for the Kato NW2. I 'thought', sincerely, that my Lima 2-6-0 had potential, but by the time I was done I had to admit that no sane person would ever try what I just finished, and the same applies to my yet-unfinished Porter 0-6-4.

 

Maybe I'm ignorant, but isn't a standard milling machine even cheaper and more prevalent and therefore aren't custom frames cheap and easy? Or, do a shape ways one and add weight?

 

I have to say, that I am very pleased that my simple little thread has grown so much, and sparked such a stimulating intellectual discussion on the pros and cons of Rapid Prototyping. I think we need to understand that this technology is very new, and its still evolving, but we are the early adopters, and that will give us an advantage as the technology grows in capability and popularity. Outside of Model Railroading, not very many other models are really using this.

I build 1/72 scale aircraft, and read a few forums about that, and, while there has been some chatter amongst them on this very subject, they are instead, looking to our community, to see how we handle it and how we choose to innovate with it. We are essentially using this technology for a purpose it wasn't designed for, which is great, because the people who created this technology have noticed and are accommodating us with advancements.

I can understand why some people are disappointed with the quality of the models produced by 3D printing, and I'm sure most of them also understand that is because this technology that we love to use was not meant to be used for production of a product, but to make a prototype of a product, hence its roughness around the edges.

I think that what we are doing is very historic and significant, because we are essentially taking a lot of power away from the traditional 'dictators' of the hobby. Instead of waiting for someone to release a model we want, we can, fairly inexpensively make it ourselves, and sell it to our peers. Its only a matter of time before someone will start making custom mechanisms to go with custom made shells.

Congratulations everyone, we just took a huge step into a very new and exciting era in modeling.

 

But here's my issue that no one seems to get, 3D printing isn't new and it isn't disappointing. I've got some high quality 3D prints from over 6 years ago.

Shapeways is new, and Shapeways is disappointing.

I understand why this is happening and it's not a big deal, but it needs to be clear that they are separate things.

Jason

 

I know its not new, because I studied it when i was a freshman in Engineering School almost 8 years ago, on a visit to GE's rapid prototyping lab in Schenectady, NY. What I meant was the way we use it is new, and the way its been made available en mass is also a new concept. The way I worded it may have not been the best way to say it. The technology itself has been around since the 80's, but as a consumer technology, its fairly new.

 

There's a big toy show in Denver this Saturday and last year there was a Makerbot affiliate with a couple machines. They have a new machine out with a layer resolution of 100 microns. I'm going to see if I can talk my way into a free sample of something I already have drawn or better yet, something I've done already through Shapeways.

I think the resolution is about the same, but maybe the finish is better.


Jason

 

That's a good idea, let us know how it turns out!

 

Last August a good friend of mine brought a truck model to show in N. RP'd, from 3D drawings, unlike anything I'd seen. His son had made it. His son works for one of the biggest entertainment companies in the world, involved in toy prototyping as well as entertainment. This was off their equipment and it made Shapeways look like a complete POS. There was no visible layering or banding at all. He had done no additional sanding. It was painted, so you couldn't tell if the material was similar to FUD. Mind you, the kid is a professional that works in 3D every day and knows how to use it, he just wanted to kind blow Dad's mind (and everybody Dad showed it to). I've sent Son some links to existing online Shapeways models so he could get a clue what we N scalers were up to, and this is what we got back.

This was as much of a quantum leap as 'make my model' printing in taffy was to Shapeways, this is the next great step forward. It's already here, there just isn't an online consumer path to get to it like there is with Shapeways.

N scale is just ideal for this kind of implementation because almost everything we want fits in 'the box', and the balance between material cost consumption and final size is comparable with what a top-end model costs anyway. I expect N (and Z) to be light years ahead of other hobbies in implementation, we have the techies, the demand, the lack of many specialty prototypes, and the economic fit to make it happen. HO is too big unless you want detail parts, and you can get a lot more in HO anyway without resorting to this. We're it, guys, whether you realize it or not.

 

Almost. Unfortunately one of the things we'll be fighting at the lower price end is that those machines may be geared towards jewelry making. I saw a price of $25000 for a Prefactory machine (this is one that makes finished product quality prints), but the tray is only 30x40x100mm. This is only good for a 40' box car on end.

I wonder if we could spec out a machine just for N scale.


Jason

 

What about the Little Joe? I feel like that would be pretty easy model to crack out as well.... what chassis would it fit or something close?

Also... saw that some one on shapeways is producing the FL9.... cant wait to see what chassis this uses.

Lets be honest, I am purely a 3 foot modeler. If some one can do it nice, I am sure I can churn out a fairly crude model.

 

What's your store?

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Admittedly I haven't read every post so sorry if already stated. How about some HO camel back shells ? Also, I'd like to know if we could print out our own structures cheaper than the common kit makers; homes ,stores, industry... What about very real looking trees and bushes of different types ? Maybe I'm uninformed here as to what DOES already exist. Or that some things are not practical in 3D print...

 

The issue right now in HO is the size of the model. A lot of rapid protoyping machines out there have a relatively small printing area. There are machinez with big enough trays to do the things in HO many people want, but the majority of street printers are not.

As to cost, no. Not yet. Unless you plan to print an entire layout of stuff. Just like the manufacturers who hve to stretch ooling costs across an entire run (thats why we got so many fake paintscheme cars, the cost of the tooling across 100000 cars as opposed to 50000) you haveto consider the u front cost of the printr and materials across how many models you plan to replace with it.

Now, unlike the tooling, in which only one type of boxcar is paying for its own toolings, a printer is paying for itself with all types of things, boxcars, buildings, bulk dryflo semis, you name it. So on that front, maybe you can balance the printer cost vs. Everything you nedd in the hobby.

Edit: not to say never, but a plastic casting of a tree is never gonna top the realism of wispy materials, like firance filter (?) Or sprinkled material. You might be able to beat the balsa skewer or oven dried twigs for tree trunks, but not the leafyness. And for the cost, id rather bke some twigs for my trees.


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I believe the old Atlas GP9 made by Roco in Austria is a phase 3. According to Spookshow's site loco is not up to todays standards. Would also like Lima switchers and Baldwin Baby faces units and DT-6-6-20 a Nebraska Zephyr by Kato to go with the E5.
Dan

 

The atlas/roco is a phase 3. It isn't up to todays standards, but can be had cheap at swap meets. I got a fully working one for $10 at the redwood empire trainshow and there were more to be had at that price.