To all have helped me be able to make a semi-educated decision on my decision to go DC or DCC for my first layout, thank you! I'm still on the DC/DCC fence but have 3 last questions for now: 1.) I know I'm going to eventually want 3 or 4 small steam engines like Athern 2-6-0 for example. Is going DCC going to limit me as to what I can buy? Athern told me via e-mail that the 2-6-0 isn't DCC ready let alone DCC equipped. I mean, in general does it really limit your loco selection in either steam or diesel when you want something dcc equipped or dcc ready? 2.) If I end up having a small budget to get started, I may try the Bachmann DCC just for laughs. New on eBay they are literally the price of a new MRC powerpack and have better resale value. On the other hand, if the funds are a little better, I may spring for a NCE Powercab or Digitrax zephyr. I'll be operating a small layout alone and that's all I'll be doing. I'd like to have 2 trains running and maybe one idling on a siding. With that said, which would you recommend between the Zephyr and the Powercab. I'm not worried about which one is more expandible, I want to know which one is goin g to be what I need out of the box and above all, which will be the most intuitive to learn and use. I am not good with electronics. I would say I need something a small child could operate, but most small children are more advanced than I am at using gadgets, LOL 3.) I'm likely going with unitrack. If I have say six #6 turnouts on my layout, will I be able to use the blue switch controls kato makes with DCC? I mean, I realize you can use them with dcc but aren't the decoders like $30-$50 for each turnout? If you use the Kato blue contollers, what do they hook to because I know in the case of the Bachmann DCC, I didn't see where it had accessory terminals. As you can see I'm really confused on this question...
1. DCC can be put in almost anything. Some are more difficult that others. If you can't do it, you can pay someone, it isn't hugely expensive in the long run. 2. Either the Zepher or the PowerCab would work for what you are talking about. The PowerCab gives you a handheld throttle, so that might a better choice. I have read more than one opinion that it is also more intuitive to use. 3. Don't know anything about Unitrack. But no matter what turnouts you use, they have to be DC controlled. Also, statioary decoders for Unitrack turnouts are available at $11.25 each. Other options may be out there, too, that's the first one I found. Jeff
As to question 3, you can use the blue switch controls with DCC. And a separate AC power supply (even the AC terminal of an inexpensive DC power pack) can be used to power the turnouts. Ben
I have NCE. My friend got a Bachmann DCC for his starter set. He changed to NCE a few months later. I could speculate about why Bachmanns are cheap on ebay, but I won't "I am not good with electronics" I said it on another thread (how many have you started?) and I'll repeat it here: for what you want I don't think you need DCC. And for the size of layout why would you want powered turnouts? Let alone remote DCC controlled one's. If you are into gadgetry that's fine, but I think you may end up with an electronics project rather than playing trains. Focus
If it's not common practice to use powered turnouts on a door layout, thanks for educating me. This may surprise you, but I wasn't born with model railroading knowledge, that's why I asked. Besides that, the Kato turnouts I had, came with controls so why wouldn't I use them? Jeez... Oh, and since you are counting, I started 2 threads with DCC in the title. Is there a limit? Considering I really have 100 questions about it, I didn't figure 2 was bad. There won't be a third. Thanks
I am thinking you may have taken offense where none was intended. Sometimes it is easier to keep one set of realted questions on one thread. It makes it easier to remember what has already been said in the 'conversation'. Don't stress out over it! As far as turnout control, there are many, many opinions. There is not a right and wrong answer. Some people throw all of their turnouts by hand, even on huge layouts. Some throw them all remotely , even on tiniy layouts. Some people with DCC systems use stationary decoders to throw the turnouts, some use other methods. Some might use DCC to throw the turnouts on the main, but hand throw in the yard. Again, don't stress over it! When we are getting started we all go through a phase where we feel like Kindergarteners in college. Everyone seems to 'know' stuff that we've never heard of. Depending on your background in the hobby, you might know very little. On the other hand, a beginner who has been reading magazines for years will already know quite a bit. Anyway, as far as throwing turnouts, do what makes sense to you. Since you already have the Kato controllers, it might make sense to use them, but maybe without the DCC hookup. (I don't know Unitrack, but I'll do some looking, if you stick around). Do the turnouts come with motors? Using what you alread have might be the cheapest and easist way to go! Jeff
If I did misuderstand, I'm sorry. I read it again and still get a condescending tone to it. Anyway, I don't know if I'm cut out for this train stuff. I think there is a reason why the average age of people on this board is 50-80. I wonder what's going to happen when those generations are gone? No more model railroading? I have a great deal of patience and thought I was asking simple questions. I don't know how a child or teenager could handle it. Looks like a fun hobby, hope it doesn't get killed off by less stressful hobbies. : )
The question was not directed to me but since I know the answer here goes. Kato turnouts have built-in motors. The turnouts can be operated manually with a tiny prong sticking out a hole in the ballasted housing. But for for remote operation using the blue switch controllers, a turnout extension cord (#24-841) is required. One end of the extension cord snaps onto the ganged (or single) blue switch controllers, the other end is attached to an AC power supply. For my layout I have ganged the blue controllers at four separate places, near the turnouts for separate yard areas but within 4 or 5 steps (my exercise). Four of the turnout extension cords are needed. And Speedy don't let age fool you. There are plenty of the ancients (like me) who learn something new every time I log on to TrainBoard. And there are many very knowledgeable folks of all ages. Organizing all the questions on a particular subject into one thread as suggested by Jeff is preferable, but it is natural to be exuberant when getting into something new so don't worry about it. Ben
Speedy- When I think about it the biggest skill we learn doing model railroading might be patience. No matter what age you are, when you start out, that's something we almost all lack. The excitement and exuberance takes over, and we want to know it all, and we want to know it now. It isn't just an age thing, there have been forty and overs come on to different boards in such a herry that they make all kinds of interesting 'mistakes'. At least you are asking the questions first, some don't. There is concern about the age of model railroaders, but it seems that there is a supply. I think there may be fewer 'casual' modellers. but more 'serious' modellers, but that a feeling that may have no basis in fact. It isn't really a stressful hobby, once you get the patience part, but it also isn't a passive hobby. There is effort required to reap the rewards. Jeff
Thanks Ben and Jeff, Message absorbed. I think I'm going to try to take a step back for a few days and clear my head. I have 8 weeks before I'll buy anything anyway. I'm probably trying to learn too much, too fast. I normally try to keep things to one post, for whatever reason, I didn't that time. I'm afraidd if I don't take a step back, I may just get frustrated and miss out on the fun. Again, if I did misunderstand Mike, I apologize. I know that some of the first things I have to decided are my layout size and what I'll use for a base, be it door or plywood etc... Also I need to know if I'm going DC or not. I've talked to quite a few people about it now via the board, e-mails, calls, and it seems 50% of the people wouldn't have it any other way than DCC even for a door sized layout, then the other 50% avoid DCC like the plague. It's confusing for new comers I can tell you that. I also need to know the type of track I'll use and for that matter the scale. I've still never 100% ruled out HO if I can make it fit. The good news is, I get those 4 decisions out of my mind and the rest I'm really looking forward to. I long for the days when my hardest decision is which rolling stock to pick out, or which train to run that day. Then I think it will all be worth it.
Speedy- This is a hobby for the long haul, taking some time to think is half the fun! (In some cases it's a lot more than half the fun.) I think Mike meant what he said, but I think he meant it with a bit of srcasm. That sort of homor often fail on message boards, but it is the way some of us are, so you just have to look past that to the message. If you'd like to discuss the whole philosophy and design of you layout, and all of your ideas, you might start a thread on the N scale board, maybe 'Speedycat's dilemma' or something. You could start from scratch as far as what your goals and objectives are, and where you want to be in the short term, and in the longer term. There's no better time to change your mind than befare you've started. I've got some pretty strong feelings about the DC vs DCC decision, especially on a smaller, new layout. There is a lot of confusion on the issue, I think a lot of it is caused by the fact that DCC is still relatively new, and changing, so there is a lot of old information out there. There is also some misleading information, but I don't think it is usually intentional. In your case, I think I'll see if we can work through your first couple of questions, by then you may have your own opinion on the DCC question. Otherwise, I'll tell you the right answer, and let you decide. The HO question is a good one, but we can get to the anwer to that once we know what you want out of the hobby, I think. Hang in there, it's fun! Jeff
Speedy - Don't be afraid to ask a million questions! And in my year or so on the board I don't think there has been any intentional hostileness from one member to another. I think sometimes something said has been misread or interpreted, but it was not the author's intent. With that said... Maybe I'm biased, but my suggestions are to stick with n scale, unitrack, dcc, and stick with Digitrax. You're obviously short on space, as I am! Why not get roughly twice the railroad in with n scale? Maybe 10 years ago HO had huge advantages, but I fail to see many anymore. Unitrack is fail proof. Your first layout you don't need to worry about flex track and roadbed and all that jazz. Just spray paint the rails and ties brown and later after you lay it down follow John Sing's advice on how to ballast it carefully. Whether or not you use controllers for switches and whether or not those controllers are DCC or normal, power your trains with DCC. Sure it takes a tad more research before you start construction but the payoff is more than worth it. I think that wiring blocks is much much harder and confusing than learning DCC. If you plan on running more than one train or one locomotive, go DCC. It's so simple to type in the road number of the loco and make it go without flipping 20 switches to control blocks! And if you do want to control turnouts through DCC the cost per switch is about $10. You can get a stationary decoder like the DS54 for 40 or 50 bucks which controls 4 switches. Digitrax even makes a decoder that fits in the road bed of a unitrack turnout called the DS51k1. Super simple and they are about 10 bucks each!
Speedy, sorry if I came over wrong. It often happens on these forums and I'm usually more critical of my own writings before I hit 'post'. As someone else said (much better) it's best not to start multiple threads on subjects that are similar - threads always drift off-topic a bit and you end up with a lot of confusion when they overlap. My concern is that you are being seduced into electrifying/remote controlling all of your first layout, which will be a pair of ovals and a few sidings. DCC does involve a lot of very small black boxes (quite literally when the smoke comes out ). If it all works first time out it will be fine, but if you were to spend time trawling Trainboard you would find many threads where people have apparently inexplicable problems. I get the impression that if you got struck by something like that it could put you off for good; or at least 20 years or so. I'm only trying to bat for your team, so if I've misunderstood where you are coming from, just ignore me. I won't mind.
Dave, thanks for the info! I'll make a note of it for future use. Mike, no problem at all, my mistake. I appreciate your help! I've read quite a bit now and talked to a few different people. Everyone has their own idea on the DC vs. DCC for my first layout decision. Everyone has made valid points that make sense to me. I think I know enough now to make atleast a semi-educated decision. Time will tell where my thought process ends up.... Let you know when I know, LOL
