2-10-2 troubles

Well, I knew it was too good to be true...

Some of you may have seen my positive post with pictures on the Atlas Forum regarding the CC 2-10-2. Just prior to them locking the forum, I shared a quick performance review that I'll post here as well. Bottom line was it runs well, is good for 45-50 cars, with pretty good detail.

Since discovering that all three ran pretty well, I noticed all three locomotives developing a tendency to stall frequently, usually when transitioning from tangent into an easement curve. Upon tinkering and disassembling the drivers, I discovered the unpleasant fact that the drivers have no apparent wipers or means to conduct current (other than the brass bearing blocks). Since the bearing blocks (called by some 'pillow blocks') are usually well lubricated, this is not good. I checked the parts diagram, and found no listing for any driver contacts.

Conclusion: the locomotive is getting its pickup almost exclusively from the tender, which gives the beast the same electrical pickup characteristics as a Life-Like SW1200! Not something I would expect from a $210+ model!

I am curious if any of you have found similar problems in your testing...

 

*shakes head*

 

Could you use conductive grease on the bearing blocks like Carbon Conductive Grease or CHO-LUBE® Conductive Grease ?

 

Thanks for the update, Verne. There are several of us sitting on the edges of our seats - please keep us posted!

 

Yep, I was getting the same. I solved it by hardwireing the tender wipers to the the PCB board. It now runs very smoothly.

[ 03. January 2005, 01:59: Message edited by: Phill ]

 

I suppose conductive grease would be one possible solution...but I will have to disassemble three drivetrains, throroughly clean them, and re-lube...then reassemble, which is a real 'treat' with these. Took me more than an hour to get the drivers back in right the first time on one locomotive, and I'm glad the kids weren't around to hear me muttering at the workbench.

Phill, I will try hardwiring the wipers to the PC board, thanks for the tip! But that only helps with the tender. I find it unacceptable that the entire locomotive is basically isolated from the rails, except for intermittent contact here and there. I am considering making phosphor bronze wipers that would brush against the backs of the drivers. They could be sandwiched between the frame and retainer plate, which is a delrin type plastic.

Again I will say, why should we have to spend the hours and $$$ to get these expensive engines to run? If it were any other wheel arrangement, I would just send them back and walk away!

One other nit, as long as I am in a crummy mood...why did Con-C##p use the old MT conversion couplers instead of the standard 1015/1016 boxes? The latter are much more stable, there it tons of vertical play in the t-shank adapter couplers. Answer: so you can easily insert horn-hook couplers. I can't double head my locos, all of them have pilot couplers that droop so badly that they don't stay coupled. Another fun project, to shim the stock coupler or cut it out completely and do it right. Model railroading is FUN, Model Railroading IS FUN, Model Railroading is FRIGGIN FUN!!!

 

If you're not into DCC, would it not be possible to load some serious weight into the tender in order to improve contact? I know it doesn't solve the driver problem, but a fix is a fix, ain't it?

And Verne, would it be feasible to use Unimates for the front couplers? Loved your quote about fun, though!!

 

The first run of Kato mikes had drivers that wouldn't pick up power


And what is soooooo hard about the couplers? My Berk front coupler is way too high. I had to shim it down .040" !!

These are currently designed locomotives.

 

Hey Verne - years ago I did that driver pickup thing off of a Bachmann 4-8-4 original run. That really worked well with pickup wipers. It got good enough I abandoned the tender pickups entirely.

I just hard hotwired my LL berk tender to the locomotive chassis myself. That drawbar is erratic, to say the least.

The whole problem with the sliding contact drawbars is that it is a moving part, and it WILL arc, creating carbon, creating dirt, creating less contact and more sparking. Out of the box OK, a few weeks later, toast. The contact area on a round wire to a round post is just miniscule. Kato almost got it right, but they do a better job of material selection and specification than anybody else, too. One area where quality makes an ENORMOUS difference.

 

The conductive greases I am familier with contain fine particles of copper and or silver. They are ment for relay contacts, PC board contacts, other or non-movable conductive contacts.

If used as a "Bearing" grease they will quickly grind the soft bronze pillow bearinge to dust.

 

Hear, hear! Dangit, take the time to get it right, instead of rushing the product to market. In this day and age, word gets around fast, bad word even faster. I will definitely skip on this.

 

I tend to agree with the idea of adding weight to the tender. I had this problem with both my CC 4-8-4 (S2 and GS4). Both loco's starting running like crap and periodically stalling even on straight track after a short while. The solution was to add a fair amount of weight (1/4 to 1/2oz I think) to the tender. After this they ran MUCH smoother. You may wish to try it with the 2-10-2. All these loco's have pulling power to spare so the weight in the tender should not have an adverse effect.

kevin

 

I added 1/2 ounce of weight to the tender of two locomotives last night, it can't hurt. Initial results showed early improvement, but then performance again degraded within 20 minutes of operation. I think Rand is on the mark - the weak link here is the post/wiper contact.

I shake my head - why they used this design which is so prone to problems, when there is a whole nest of wires extending into the cab from the circiuit board! Why not just hardwire the tender pickups to the loco frame with two more wires??? It's not like you can easily separate the tender from the locomotive.

I'm going to try running wires to the frame, but I may also try adding pickup wipers to the center drivers. The other axels have so much lateral play, pickups might not be able to travel enough and still make good contact.

To be continued...steam is no mere hobby or diversion, it is a consuming passion...

 

Are you sure the problem is at the bearings?

How does power get from the wheel tread to the bearing?

I don't have the 2-10-2 so I can't look at it. If it uses small contacts to reach out to the rim you might try conductive paint.

 

To quote Dan in another thread - it's a good thing I didn't have a mouthful of coffee when I read that!!!

On a more serious note - I am holding my breath on Verne's solution. Based on the earlier glowing reports, I sprang for two of these Big Bubbas...

 

I was seeing inadequate power pickup on the drivers until I polished some of the blackening off the wheel tread.

When I check the continuity using my ohmmeter I am seeing good power pickup from the drivers to the locomotive frame. Power routing goes back to the tender from the loco frame via the wiper post and then back to the motor. If it looks like you are only getting power from the tender, the wiper post is the most likely problem spot. I would polish the post and maybe use some ConductaLube to keep the oxidation down and continuity good.

I also added about 1/3 oz of weight to the tender and that improves rail contact and tracking while backing up.

 

use Bachmann's conductve EZ Lube. t was desgned for ths exact ssues wth the pllow blocks on ther engnes.

 

You think You got problems with the 2 10 2? try this on for size!

I got mine the other day. today I decided to check her out. I threw her on the kato test loop I use a break in track. I run Atlas code 55 and handlay my own turnouts.
Running fine, its not kato, obviously needs a break in period to smooth things out.

Heres the capper!
Every wheel pair except one is out of gauge, I am not talking slightly, I am talking when one wheel flange is in the groove the other flange misses entirely. Concor hasn't answered my email yet.
Yes the tender is also out of gauge too. every wheel.

Anyone take these apart yet?

Rob