I want to make an HO train depicting the California Limited as it was in 1939 running between Barstow and Los Angeles. Has anybody done this before? If so, is it documented somewhere? I've done a fair amount of research that has resulted in a little bit of information. Consist lists on the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society website (members-only page so I won't post it here) for trains 3 and 4 are helpful in showing the kinds of cars, such as baggage-express-mail, diner, standard 8-1-2 sleeper, etc. but finding out which of these cars were used is difficult. I've gone through the Santa Fe Railway reference books Vol. 1, 2, 4 and McCall's diner book as well as many dozens of web sites to gain a little knowledge such as the lounge-dormitory car was 1351 (rebuilt 1304 baggage-buffet-library). But others have me stymied. For example, which baggage-express-mail would be typical? More importantly, what HO cars are correct? I have the Suydam RR-3 diner and RR-11 observation (these are important because they have the unique Sante Fe lower sill) but I don't know if they are correct for the California Limited in 1939. I also have the Walthers heavyweight 8-1-2, 10-1-2 and chair cars. I'd like to know the correct names/numbers to apply. I also have extra Walthers chair cars to swipe the unique steam-ejector A/C systems to add to the sleepers and also to provide frames/floors/trucks for the Suydam brass bodies. Plus, I have one Coach Yard #1015 steam-ejector detail kit that I'll use on the diner. I've got a supply of Central Valley T-22 welded style 6-wheel trucks and K-23 kingpins. The usual answer to my questions would be: find photos of the actual train. So far, I've found almost nothing -- especially when it comes to being able to read the car names/numbers. My next place to look will be the NMRA library. For a locomotive, I'll probably use a 3700 class Northern. The closest I've found is a photo of 3726 in Barstow in 1933. I'd like to find a photo of one taken closer to my 1939 time. I'm thinking of starting a blog on this subject to display (without violating copyrighted photos/text) what I've found so far. Would this be of interest to you?
The California Limited Well, there isn't much on the internet to access with regard to the California Limited and it's consist, in tow. However, there are numerous library's where books with pictures and details of the train can be found. One of those is the County Library in San Bernardino, CA. Here are two pictures. Credits go to the Denver Public Library and Wikipedia. To be used here strictly for illustration and historical documentation. You may purchase them...should you desire. The first one is more in the time frame you requested. July of 1933, at La Junta, Co. The second one is an older CA Limited on Cajon Pass, CA. If my dad (A former REA Agent) were still with us he'd say, "Any old Rivarossi, Santa Fe, Standard Passenger Car would do the job". Apparently, they appeared to be fairly authentic to the Santa Fe passenger car types. The CA Limited was a mixed bag of passenger cars. To the best of my recollection Santa Fe operated whatever, was available in the coach yard and sent it cruising down the tracks. Finding exacting car numbers and the likes will be difficult at best. Here is a website where you can find a map of the CA Limited's route: : Route of the California Limited -- And one more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Atchison,_Topeka_and_Santa_Fe_Railway_images Lucky to find this one again: http://photoswest.org/photos/00001501/00001530.jpg The last one is my favorite resource for anything Santa Fe. I won't guarantee the CA Limited is in this collection...but you can look: http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/collectionindex.html Good news, Q Station is back up: http://www.qstation.org/atsfresource.html#FreightCar This is the best I can do for you. Enjoy!
Thanks, BarstowRick. The Denver Public Library and PASSENGER CAR PHOTO INDEX - ATCHISON TOPEKA SANTA FE links found via Qstation have helped add to my information already. The county library in San Bernardino is a short drive away -- I hadn't even thought of it. I like your comment, "The CA Limited was a mixed bag of passenger cars. To the best of my recollection Santa Fe operated whatever, was available in the coach yard and sent it cruising down the tracks." If information is so scarce, there won't be much for rivet-counters to complain about when they see my train. If I get the car-type right and use AT&SF names/numbers, who can prove that a particular car wasn't likely to be in the train? So, I'll concentrate on getting the mechanical details like the roof-top A/C to look acceptable (while knowing that there apparently is even less photographic evidence of how each car looked because of the lack of overhead shots). I'd also like to recommend Steve Sandifer's site for all who are modeling the Santa Fe: http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/ModelIntro.htm If anyone would like to offer additional information, I'm all ears.
You are more then welcome! How true is that? There are students of the Santa Fe who have made their best efforts to provide as correct a resource of information, as is possible. They've done well putting together information in books and etc...but it isn't conclusive or absolute. We can get close to being historically correct but lack much in documenting the oddities. At this point it's hard to prove much other then what we find in pictures. Consists would change as the trains were made up. Perhaps a dining car originally assigned to a specific train at it's inauguration, needed to be pulled out for maintenance. Another diner would be assigned to the train and so on with the rest of the passenger cars. Santa Fe did have a fleet of specialized cars for the Chief and later the Super Chief. The interiors were made up for "Extra Fair, Extra Fine" first class assignments. If one of these had to be pulled out another car from the specialized pool would be pulled and sent on it's way. You can see how a passenger car consist could and would fluctuate, over time. The one thing I appreciate about some historians and students of the rails, you won't catch them saying, "Never". In place of: You will hear or read, for example: (I will use a current hot issue and button for some) "It isn't likely that Santa Fe, had green smooth sided or corrugated streamline baggage cars," continuing "They were delivered in _____(original paint scheme)," and they are wise to add, "Little is known about after market applications". (End of statement) At some point along the way, a paint shop may have been given an order to experiment with a particular paint scheme. It happened all the time at the San Bernardino, Ca., ATSF Paint Shops. The painters themselves were known to occasionally add their own twist to a paint scheme. Oh, and lest I forget...I best add. The green tinting that can be seen in pictures on some ATSF smooth sided baggage cars was added on when REA leased the cars from ATSF. It was the REA that ordered the change in venue. It's not likely you will find this in print anywhere but it is a fact known to some REA and Santa Fe rails. Anyway, I wouldn't give no mind to the rivet counters...unless you want to. I tend to be a rivet counter when it comes to my Santa Fe passenger trains. I prefer to run as prototype passenger trains, as is possible. However, we are limited on the availability of specific cars and sometimes we end up settling for second or third best. That's funny...so did the real rails. wink: Be sure to review what Russell shared with you. Keeping in mind this is just one day's consist. He's one of the good guys, one of a few I will defer to when discussing Santa Fe. Have fun.
Russell, that 1932 consist is just the sort of thing that I'm looking for. Even though it's seven years older than "my" year, it is invaluable because I can trace the names on the car types, such as 8-1-2 sleeper, that were in the 1939 consist.
I've posted the information that I've found so far on the '20s & '30s Modular Model Railroad blog at http://steamblog.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/1939-santa-fe-california-limited-research-for-an-ho-model/ Feel free to add missing information and comments there. Here are four questions: I. What road number is the Balboa HO 3700 Mountain based on? II. 16-section tourist sleeper: what makes it different from a 16-section standard sleeper? What changes would be needed to modify the NKP Car Co. 16-section sleeper from Pullman pool (not specifically for Santa Fe) Plan 2412U? III. Is there an HO model of a standard 2-3 observation? If not, what changes would need to be made to a Suydam/Lambert brass Santa Fe cafe-observation #RR-1? IV. A.T. & S.F. Coach Green color: there are several formulas mentioned in books, articles and the internet. I tried Andy Sperandeo's recommendation of 4 parts Polly Scale GN Empire Green and 1 part Reefer Yellow but it looks more gray than green to me. What do you think? The Polly Scale GN Empire Green by itself looks good as A.T. & S.F. Truck Brown. To me, Polly Scale Pullman Green looks very close to the Coach Green on the Walthers chair car.
...and another question: on a 1939-era ATSF baggage-express car, would the lettering say "Railway Express Agency" or "Railway Express Agency, Inc."?
When exactly did they add the "Inc" to the end? I try to model around 1951 and the photos I have seem to include both like they were transitioning between the two versions.
