I'd really like to see what people are doing both with D-SLRs and P&S cameras. In Z we post lots of photos and I think hearing from people and seeing their results would be a great idea to help us all improve or Z photo skills. I've written a short piece on my own camera hunt over at Ztrains.com Ztrains.com | My Digital Point-And-Shoot Education John Ztrains.com | Z Scale (1:220) Model Railroading
I still haven’t found a better camera then my 2004 model HP 850 4.1Mp Digital camera for my Z-Scale photo shot. Tried some DSL mirror Cameras but was not happy or even close to the images I get with my old HP camera. The problem is getting the depth in the photo. The "F" setting is the key to a successful shot without spending hours setting up light and so on. At least if you are looking to spend less then 3000$ on a camera with the correct lens and lighting.
PS: I’m 99% sure that you will not find any camera to completely satisfy you within the range off 1000-1500$ in today’s marked for the Z-Scale. The only choice you have is to buy a used old digital camera with only about 4-6Mpix on it. That’s back when quality matters and not just numbers to pleas the average photo guy that only shoot their family photos.
Nice article John. I have had good experience with products from Nikon and Canon. I personally chose to use Canon products, and in the past I would highly recommend any Canon product. However in recent years, Canon has altered its quality to create more defined price tiers. IE: Now some are good and some are junk for Z scale. Any camera you get for Z should have full manual controls (exposure, iso speed, aperture). As far as I know, Canon has removed the manual controls from their A series line, so direct control of exposure time and aperture settings are only available on their S and G series cameras. The manual controls were never available on the ELPH series. I currently use a Canon S90(~$400) camera for my photos. Its is small and compact and takes pretty good point and shoot photos. It also has all the manual controls. I like it, but please do other research before you buy any camera, especially with whatever budget you are considering. I paid the premium so that I could pocket my camera while I'm out and about. There are plenty of cheaper cameras that would work for me that come in a slightly larger body. Many camera manufactures have been selling 14-15 mega pixel cameras, but most high mega pixel cameras have high noise. Canon, decided to go with slightly lower 10-12 MP sensors in the S series to eliminate this noise. I'm sure other manufacturers do the same thing on their higher end cameras because they know that people who buy them are more interested in picture quality than mega pixel count. My advice is to go to a site like http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/ and look to see how much noise is in the image before you buy a camera. They do in depth reviews with example pictures. Buy a camera with low noise and that has manual controls. Here is the review for my camera. On pages 2-3 you can see the types of photos they take to review the ability of the cameras. http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=4157&review=canon+powershot+s90 There are a few other camera review sites. Why manual controls are important? I will show in the following photos, how manual controls help produce better photos. I staged a photo with a large depth a field and set it in low light. A difficult challenge to photo in Z scale. I then took 3 photos, auto mode with flash, auto mode without flash, and fully manual without flash. Picture setup: The camera is on its side resting on a bottle cap. Lighting is low. Auto Mode using a flash: (ISO: 80, Exposure 1/60 sec, Aperture: f/3.2) Camera Chose these settings. Auto Mode without flash (ISO: 800, Exposure 1/20 sec, Aperture: f/2.0) Camera Chose these settings based on lighting. Generally not bad for a point and shoot but only the nose of the GP7 is in focus. Higher iso speed = higher noise, or a more grainy look Manual Mode, no flash (ISO: 80, Exposure 10 sec, Aperture: f/8.0) I Chose these settings. Why manual mode is better: The low ISO speed produces lower noise images, but needs longer exposure times. The narrow aperture (higher f number : f/8.0) increases the depth of field but also reduces the light that gets exposed to the sensor, so longer exposure times are needed. The exposure time was 10 whole seconds! Thats why you cannot hold the camera with your hands, but it produces a substantially better image, with high depth of field. Anyways, thats how I take my photos. I'm sure there are others whom have other methods, such as, not having bad lighting. Please chime in.
Two other things occurred to me: One: Also look at the minimum focal distance when selecting a camera. 10cm is a long distance in Z scale. Two: Many cameras have auto modes where you can select the iso speed manually, and exposure and aperture are still auto. High iso speeds are your biggest source of noise. Keeping them low goes a long way in taking better photos. Example: (ISO: 80, Exposure 1/2 sec, Aperture: f/2.0) Still has low depth of field, but much less noise than the full auto mode. -Curn
This is a two part questions / answer. The camera body and lens. For years I used Macro Nikon lenses and bodies in the forensic tire work I did. There is no way a $500 camera is going to come close to a good camera and Macro lens. What do I use today -- A Canon P&S SD1300 Image Stabilization that cost in the order of $150 ($109.99 Today's BEST BUY price) and fits in my pocket. It is really good for 95% of most photo work. If you want to get serious then get an EXPENSIVE tripod and an EXPENSIVE high quality camera & lens(s) AND lighting. ...don
I'll second that about the lighting and the tripod. Somebody gave me a Silk 700 tripod and with good lighting, even my Sony point-and-shoot takes better photos. (I still have to clean those up with software. To me, Sony cameras seem to have a chromatic problem.) I also like to use the timer with the camera on the tripod so I don't jiggle the camera when I take the picture. I got my wife a Canon SD1400 for Christmas and that is a nice little camera for the money. Now I just have to learn to use it.
Coolpix 5700 images from 2004 I was very satisfied with my old Coolpix 5700 P&S camera and took some pictures you may have seen several times: All images are taken using a tripod and 3 lamps, one with a softbox. To have maximum depth, the smallest aperture possible is selected. Here from Saguaro River Module: The above image is taken with the following setup on the Nikon Coolpix 5700 camera: Image Size: 2300 x 1725, Focal Length: 27.3mm, Exposure Aperture: F/7.4, Shutter Speed: 1/24.5s More images here: Saguaro River Another shot you may have seen taken with the same camera: The above image is taken with the following setup on the Nikon Coolpix 5700 camera: Image Size: 2560 x 1920, Focal Length: 18.8mm, Exposure Aperture: F/7.5, Shutter Speed: 1/16.8s More images here: Bjorkli Viaduct I was very satisfied with this old Coolpix 5700 camera. After that I bought a Nikon D70S, but I have NOT been so satisfied with that equipment. I normally use a 50 mm with that camera, but a problem compared to the 5700 and my old analog Nikon FE, the new optic is not so sharp as the old. I think the optic is not so sharp with the lowest apperture I want to use to give as good depth as possible. Because of that I not always use the smallest apperture, instead I use photoshop to put togheter several images or I use the Helicon Focus program Here is an image composed of 3-4 images with different focuspoint, using Photoshop the manual way. Helicon would also give the same result. Camera Info: Image Size: L (3008 x 2000), Device: Nikon D70s, Lens: 50mm F/1.8D Aperture: F/22, Shutter Speed: 4s, ISO Sensitivity: ISO 200
There's some truth to the ease and quality of photos taken from the older 4MP camera's of the dat vs. new camera's. I have an Olympus 4MP 10X optical zoom point and shoot that has great depth of focus and takes great photos with minimal setup, but this Christmas I picked up a new Olympus 4/3 camera, and although it is 12MP and can take even better pictures, it is not quick to setup, and the super macro mode is not better than my old camera. To get the new camera to compete, I have to back off and play with multiple setups. Although it is not billed as a point in shoot, it's in the middle of PAS and DSLR camera's.
With the ever increasing light sensitivity (yearly !), most ANY modern camera, PhD (pocket, push-here-dummy) or D-SLR type can take great pictures. Most all have image stabilization of some form. Many less than $200 can shoot 10 frames per second, shoot HD movies, etc. As long as you have decent lighting (that means more than one 60w lite bulb). you can take most likely a great show. However, nothing beats a larger SLR/D-SLR camera as the size of the lense lets sooooo much more light in and, the larger imager captures so much more light that you can take that much better of a picture. Pros and cons ? That smaller camera can get in a lot closer and generally take a much closer macro (compared to a stock zoom on an SLR). Con: in macro mode, that close, you only see what is right there. That little lense can't let is as much light so the typical hand held point and shoot can't get good depth of field (how much is in focus right in front of your lense and the farthest). If you set up some lights and a tri-pod, like Svein-martin and Curn's examples, you can do better. However, an SLR (includes D-SLR) can easily do this (since it has so much more light sensitivity with a stopped down lense), even hand held but nothing beats a Tripod. Sure, you can use software to stich together pix to create a much larger depth of field but with the right lense on an SLR (D-SLR), you can do that in one shot and move on. I have three cameras: Older Panasonic DMZ-FZ18 with 18x zoom and optical stabilization - excellent for LONG zoom telephoto shots but it is on it's way out (3 years old) when I add a long zoom to my: Sony a55. Freakin awesome D-SLR camera. It has the classic backside display but with higher resolution than most and a super high resolution internal view finder in place of the typical optical-only. This lets you easily see the actual depth of field image in Preview. Plus, it shoots 10 fps, HD and can zoom while shooting movies. Optical stabilization (OIS). The best part: it has a transparant mirror so it has continuous and freakin fast autofocus both for camera and movies. NO MORE STATIC VIEW Movies. Samsung SL-350: this pocket camera has 5x zoom, optical stabilization, shoots 10fps pictures and HD. Can take full resolution pictures while making a movie, can one button start taking a movie while taking pictures but best: it can shoot 240, 480 or 1000 fps movies (at lessor resolution). It is really great for watching mechanical linkages or that classic 'is that center driver really on the rail ?" vidz. And it has cool analog dials for the battery and memory. .
I think seeing more of the D-SLR images in this thread would be really useful so we can compare them! John Ztrains.com | Z Scale (1:220) Model Railroading
Sorry for posting this photo twice, but since John is asking about digital SLRs. This was shot with a Canon EOS 10D equipped with a 50mm macro. The exposure time was 0.3 with a F number of 19. Raw image size was 3072 x 2048. This was cleaned up a bit in PhotoShop, and scaled way down for use on the web. Rob
If you want to compare photos for super detail, then plan to enlarge the photos to a MINIMUM of 30 x 40 inches, or more. I used to take about a 1/2" spot on a 35 mm film and enlarge that to 16"x20". A 16x20 mounted on foam core is fairly easy to handle in the court room and the jury can see the fine details...assuming the original was good to begin with. Photo comparisons on the Internet are not going to be quality images. ...don
Not really concerned about super detail, as I mentioned at the top of this thread I thought it would be useful to see what people are using and what results they're getting. Came across some interesting reading while looking into P&S cameras. Aside from seeing some really good looking shots online I found this article where 15 pro photographers, including a couple of Pulitzer Prize winners, talk about their P&S cameras. 15 Digital Point-and-Shoot Cameras Used By Pro Photographers - A Picture's Worth | PhotoShelter I think for a majority of people looking to take good model train photos, looking at what a basic camera can do is infinitely more useful than focusing on what it can't do. What the heck, I'm just kind of an optimist that way! John http://www.ztrains.com
For DSLRs, Get a Dedicated Macro Lens. It's worth it. Unfortunately, I'm at work, so I don't have access to my camera or any pictures, right now. However, After years of getting so-so results using my old Nikon D100 DSLR (6.4MP)and a general purpose macro zoom, I finally gave in and started using my older 50mm f2 Macro Nikkor for Z scale. The hardest part was working out the flash setting, since my old ring flash won't work with my D100. The built in diffuser on my external flash wasn't enough, so I started taping a couple of index cards over the flash. I shoot in aperature priority auto, with the flash in auto-TTL. If I need added depth of field, I stop the lens down to F32. Anyway, if you are going to use a DSLR, invest in a dedicated macro lens. I have a $500 Nikkor 55mm and a $70 Phoenix 70mm (for nikon AF) and both work great. You just have to play with aperatures and flash settings. Dan S.
I use a Cannon Powershot A610 with 5MB and I also tried to find a newer one and as replacement for this wonderful digital. I never find something better. Just a little bit scared about a failure, one day. As I could find nothing suitable with orientable tiltable screen and camera making yet good pictures in bad light conditions and also, as Cannon decided to stop this program, I bought as backup a good used A620 with 7MB. If the opportunity shows for a good used A610, i will for sure also buy it. Funny now that most companies came down from the megamega-hype, and you now pay more for a camera 10MB this year as for a 12MB of year before. But they killed by themselves their business.
I use a Kodak easyshare Z915 have been impressed with its 10x optical zoom and macro ability and quality seems to match my HP815 which I had to part with when battery compartment latch broke. Camera still works but need an elastic to hold battery door closed.
This is what a serious Tripod looks like. The pistol grip handle is NOT part of the tripod but a separate section. This is the lowest it will go - about 4 feet plus to about 7 feet high. OTOH you can tilt the horizontal bar and put the camera on or below the ground. It is strong enough that it will support a 300 pound person. There is almost no position you can not reach between the tripod's movement and the pistol grip, which can be moved in almost any position within a sphere. The pistol grip used to get some serious questions by airport security - and they don't understand an explanation that they don't understand. If you just want to snap photos or take videos at train shows, this should not be on your shopping list. If you want quality photos you might consider this provided the rest of your equipment is similar in quality. ..don
It's been good to see some of the results folks are getting and what cameras they're using. That 3-shot series by Curn was very instructive. On the Nikon 5700... very familar with the photos... didn't know that was the model that took them... impressive! John Ztrains.com | Z Scale (1:220) Model Railroading
Got a bit tied up with a few projects but finally got the whole camera choice settled, at least until I go DSLR. I appreciate the people who posted back and who I spoke to offline about cameras. Slowly learning some of the finer points of manual and partial-manual control. Ztrains.com | Point-And-Shoot Finale John Ztrains.com | Z Scale (1:220) Model Railroading
