There's an old saying that you should never discuss politics,religion in polite company. We have a new subject to add DCC. In a previous post titled “The DCC dilemma, is it in your future?” I had hoped to learn more about DCC. The corresponding posts started out very encouraging fun and informative. But by the 50th post (which was mine) I suspected things had gone sideways. I don’t understand why the subject is so controversial among model railroaders but it obviously is. I don’t think I owe anybody an apology for bringing it up but I can’t help but feel apprehensive about bringing it up again. There were so many good posts that it inspired more questions. Unfortunately one of the posters did not like the responses and decided to take a stand. This disrupted the continuity of the discussion and resulted in this new posting. I hope we can continue. Back to the subject Because so many of you kindley responded I understand that decoders can be cross functional on other DCC systems. I have been reading previous posts here on Trainboard along with the information at the DCC decoder manufacturer websites. Although I am very open to opinions. Without asking which one is best, is there any significant differences between decoders? What do I need to know to get started in selecting decoders?
From my limited but growing experience in DCC.. its what fits your loco.. most of the time for drop ins its either digitrax, TCS or NCE.. With how easily you can change speed settings it doesn't make a huge difference in what you pick.
Joe I am with you on this. I model in DC currently, but I am eventually looking possibly going to DCC. I also want to know real expierences with DCC, so I know what help I may need to get up and running. Good luck with your upgrade if that is what you end up doing.
I don't think there really is a difference in decoders BUT there is a price difference. For example is you want DCC with or without sound the price is different. And another factor is it worth it for you to go DCC. If you have a lot of old locos that are not DCC then you might consider getting a few that are DCC friendly. I'm also a DC guy that is thinking about going DCC BUT when I purchased most of my locos I made sure that they are either DCC friendly or have DCC installed. I do have a few DCC locos since I had a friend who had a DCC layout and we used to run trains till he moved. I think a lot of people are afraid to try it cause they are not sure if they can understand how to work DCC. But the modeler in us always finds a way to make thinks work I mean come on we kitbash all the time.
Thank you Joe for bringing up the subject. I searched for this thread as I am trying not to reinvent the wheel or repeat common mistakes as my modest budget won't allow for it. I'm researching for my first engine purchase to fit into the transition era, in N-Scale. If I don't make any progress beyond the first one, to go with the rolling stock I already have, I at least want to get the most out of it. I 'm aiming to find a GP-7 or an RS1 that will accept a sound decoder as well. We seem to be on the threshhold of an explosion of improvements so I'm trying to bide my time while it sorts itself out. Again thank you for promoting the discussion.:thumbs_up:
I've found that selection of decoders is a locomotive-by-locomotive decision. I tend to use Digitrax, mainly because they make a lot of drop-in decoders, and I use a Digitrax Super Chief on the layout. Even though one manufacturer's decoder will work with another manufacturer's system, some advanced or proprietary functions (like Digitrax's transponding) only work when both are the same. That doesn't stop me from using SoundTraxx decoders where I can fit the speaker. SoundTraxx "medium steam" sound file includes the PRR banshee whistle, and I'll take that over the ability to implement transponding any day! I don't know how deep you're planning to get into DCC functionality, but if your just interested in the basics, get the major brand decoder for each locomotive that's easiest to install and has the functions that you want.
Newer stuff will most likely take any of the 'drop in' decodes from most any manufacturer. Older stuff gets a little tricky. Digitrak and TCS both make smaller one piece hard wired decoders that MAY fit anything!!! There are others I am sure. Some are fairly easy to solder and install. Some take some imagination to get em in there. :tb-wacky: I am using TCS decoders...both 'drop in' and hard wired. Their CN line is a slpit decoder (one half up front...the other in the back. I also us their Z2 line...used in z scale locomotives...but work fine in N also. The Z2 are pretty small. Anything but a drop in from any manufacture will require some degree of soldering. :tb-nerd: Drop ins are fairly simple to install. Most just require sliding out the DC board on top of the frame...and sliding in the DCC decoder:tb-cool: Heck...if this 62 year old...oldfoggy can do...so can you !! :thumbs_up: .
DCC or not, and what brand if you want it, are always going to be highly charged topics. Pretty much the same as Ford vs GM vs Dodge vs Import threads on car forums. What one person swears by, another swears at, and soon everybody is just swearing...
Although I am very open to opinions. Without asking which one is best, is there any significant differences between decoders? What do I need to know to get started in selecting decoders? ------------------ This may help. Search Results | Tony's Train Exchange.
Well it's pretty simple. DCC is he only way to go. I don't see what all the discussion is about. It's just a better way to go in the long run.
Hey, we just wanna have fun here............. There are always a host of issues which prompt people to argue including but not limited to the aforementioned issues. Don't forget C55, 3 vs 5 pole motors, traction tires, disagreements over brands, roadnames, and on and on infinitium. I got back into model railroading back in the early eighties after a tennis injury and inspiration from a Chattanooga relative. Plus I was getting darn tired of the radical behavior unbecoming of many tennis players all trying to pursue fun in the name of combat. I become a model railroader join a club and same old same old. I helped form a work group which we rotated working on each other's homes and survived without arguments for 10 years. So it is possible and still be different. From my aged perspective, bnsf hit it right on target.......we tend to advocate those things that work for us, by projecting they will work for others no matter what. We are all different and should learn from that, but instead we choose to draw our own feet on the line and fight it out. As for me, I am one overlyl opinionated person, but will not attack someone just because he is different from me. I am a dc runner for a variety of reasons, but do not decry others who have it and use it. I also use Kato Unitrak and do not use C55 nor will I ever but do not criticize others who do so. I love pretty much all current locomotives, particularly Kato and Atlas, but recognize even they screw up once in a while, and I will certainly post my opinion and why I came to it, and even defend my opinion, but like others I was attacked personally. I attribute this to a degree of passive aggression of many people, irritated by the general atmosphere of the times. I think, many are, as I am irritated by outsourcing, inflation, gas prices, the stronghold that China and the Middle East have over us, the recession, the increases in crime and how outrageous they are becoming, and on and on. In the absence of an intended source to blame or attack, or even access, we tend to act it out on those around us, or indirectly at those who dare oppose our point of view. This board is pretty peaceful and now is a tie for my #1 choice of posting and reading, and I cherish it. I am pretty comfortable in my life now with all of the choices within the hobby and have nothing but loads of fun working on my layout, running trains, operations when I can, upgrading and retro-fitting, scratchbuilding and even repairs now. I am still in the glow of ecstacy of scoring two Rivarossi Mallets in mint condition I got at an LHS for $100 total, and pulling off a decent paint job on an undec Kato J3a. I will continue to post observations and opinions and never attack a person, but may disagree with their opinions, but that is about as far as I go, and sort of expect that of others. My normal approach is to treat people with dignity and respect and if that is violated, I just shun them off, and do not bother with them, opting not to fight it out. My day in the ring is over, and I love grazing in the meadow now. Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
Only carefully, or better do not discuss OFAS, that'll get your post pulled lickity split, LOL ! I made that mistake recently, LOL ! fatalxsunrider43
The only problem I have with some posts in some DCC threads is that often, in a thread discussing a particular decoder installation, or asking for help with programming, someone will jump in with their "DCC IS TERRIBLE AND I WILL NEVER USE IT blah blah blah" response. To me, it reflects bad manners. I don't show up at the nearby HO club telling them that 1:87 is the Scale of the Devil. I may think that, but I keep it to myself.
DC vs DCC Well, the problem, as I see it, is many of us grew up on DC. We like it. A lot. The DCC fold seem to aspire to the whole you are not a modeler if not using DCC. Ok, I'll say it even though nobody will, sound in model RR to me is just silly. I mean really, what are we, playing with choo choos? Ok maybe we are, but really, sound? Who cares...I know some do, but I don't. Lights who cares...I want trains that run from a power pack. Gosh dang old school me! Quite frankly it truely is old school vs new school. I won't try and convert a DCC to DC so don't try and convert me. I think it complicates the hobby. (of course others will chime in and say it makes it great and is easy) So be it. It is your choice. I think DCC is only the begining. As mentioned in the previous thread, I think Radio controll will be the future. No power from the track...when that happens...then you got me. Until then, I got equipment from the the 70's and 80's that do just fine on old DC. The thing is this, if you really looked into it, the vast majority still runs DC...now are the tech savy and on-line people running DCC? maybe...For me and many many others DCC is a pain and a cost. But, it is your choice and that is what is great, like code 80 vs code 55, unitrack vs. others. It is up to you. There are great modelers who use DCC and Great ones that use DC. I am not preaching the benifits of DC nor Dissing DCC, just being real. So lighten up everybody.
Right, Joe. Different scales, track, track codes, and even control systems (DC or DCC or something else) for everyone. There are great modelers in all. I would argue that, in general, more complicated operations are much more possible using DCC, but plenty of people do operations on DC and it can be done. My only objection is when someone jumps into the middle of a thread about a particular DCC topic to tell everyone that DCC is a waste or nobody should use it. It seems to happen mostly in DCC topics. You don't really get people jumping into topics in the SP forum to tell people that the Milwaukee Road is the only road, or in the N scale forum telling people that O scale is the best. It's peculiar to pretty much the DCC forum. Similarly, I think it would be bad manners for someone to jump in saying "DC is so OVER" in a thread about DC control.
ok, so really. if this is getting to the point where we can't talk about DCC because someone will get butthurt about it, then I will be leaving. This is stupid. The reality is with costs of DCC going down, the conversion of locomotives getting easier and easier every day, and the sheer ease of layout wiring, DCC is the future. Now I am not saying that everyone has to drop DC and go to DCC, DC works for some people, and works well. and for others, like me, that either have quite a few locomotive, or someone who has or is planning a large layout, it is the best way to go. Now something I have noticed is it isn't usually the DCC people going after the DC people, it is usually the DC people going after the DCC people, the fact of the matter is this is just trains. and if you don't have something constructive to say, either for or against an argument, then shut the heck up and don't reply in a DCC thread. you don't see me going into the AT&SF or UP threads and tell them how much it irratates me that everything that comes out for a while there seems to be aimed towards those 2 railroads. And I don't go preaching Northern Pacific, and saying that the others suck, and NP is the only way to go. then why does this fly with the DCC/DC trheads. TL: DR: if you don't have something constructive to say about DCC, shut the hell up, and don't post in the threads.
Well, all of us here grew up on writing letters and reading newspapers and magazines, but it's safe to assume everyone on this forum uses e-mail and surfs the web...just sayin! I use DC, but I've never once gotten any heat from any of my DCC friends. Of course, I do plan to switch eventually, and have told them that; I don't intend to remain in the DC realm forever. As for switching to DCC...when and what system I don't really know yet.
The MRC 1955 sound decoder fits the Atlas GP7, some say the engine sounds are a bit quiet but that's a matter of individual taste (there's another post on that anyway so the debate can stay there). In it's favor it is a straight drop-in fit with no modification of the frame or shell required. I've got several and plan on getting more. As for the RS1 that might be a bit of a stretch just yet but it wasn't that many years ago that fitting what is now called DCC in any N scale locomotive would have been science fiction even without sound.
Yeah if he can do it and I can too (with zero patience haha) then it's not all that bad. The decoder prices are down to as low as $17 or so to add a wired decoder to many non-DCC-ready locos (if you want simple features, it's plenty to get 'em on the rails with speed, lighting and consisting). The 2 main reasons I keep coming back to TCS decoders so far, are: They run smooth and reliably on DC, and they have lighting already on the boards that suits my taste. Wiring headlights is a huge headache for me; not having to find good LED's and bug with that keeps me coming back to TCS' split-board and single-board decoders. I'm at about 30% DCC-ization on my fleet, and that DC run quality sure does make a diff. to me (found digitrax and MRC to often be herkyjerky on my DC sessions)..... STILL, I just got my order of some brand new Atlas Master GP's 'cause the price was right and I got three DC-only Geeps for the price of ~two DCC equipped units, knowing I can drop in my own choice decoder anytime is pretty darn nice. I think I'll pick up an MRC sound decoder mentioned earlier and see if that's my new path? I love the choices- it's like getting a custom car stereo installed; the drive is the same, but I enjoy driving more
