Ever walk into a brick wall? One you built yourself brick by brick by ... The GandG II was a great plan with a few innovative ideas implemented. 1) 2" base of foam with 1/2 on top. Use the 1/2 foam to act as track support and put risers of foam under it. I am sure it would have worked. 2) 6% Grades with DPUs. They did work. It was too much for my construction skills. <insert months of stagnation> <insert soul searching> Conclusion: It was too complicated along with other aspects of my life. Time to simplify ________________ Goal: Get two trains running Flawless track laying Large Yard Easy wiring Switching Easy expansion _______ The yard is almost the same but there is more room for an engine terminal. I removed the run-around and will put it between two yard tracks ____________________________________________________________ Two trains running and easy wiring: - Electrically isolated inner and outer ovals and two power supplies Large yard - Check Easy expansion: - Toward bottom right note the track heading off the side. Switching - plenty of room at the yard and in the center of th ovals Every piece fit the way it should. No fudging - Done ___________ Engine terminal will be between the yard and the outer oval. Track plan coming. 11"(1x), 12" and 15" curves on inner oval 12", 15", and 19" curves on the outer oval and yard lead Yard tracks will transition to Atlas flex track. that may be the most complicated thing I do on this layout. Roberta (Rrrr) was very helpful in being able to help me with the decisions and taking the old one down. I don't think i could have done it alone.
I think you made good decisions here! You realized you were in a bit over your head, and scaled back.You can always add to layouts that please you. It's really tough to add to something that's just not working.
Tough decision, but probably a good one. I feel the loss too as I have been "involved" since nearly the beginning when you were first playing around with the concept and the first trial layouts. Trust me, I know about "stagnation". If I may suggest adding two more goals. 1. Get the blue foam painted with a basic earth brown latex paint as soon as track laying is complete. 2. Get basic scenery started soon after. This version will still probably not be the final layout. Take advantage of it to try as many things that you didn't get to on the previous layout as possible. Good luck Ed
Greetings Grey One, Well being new I went back and read the previous threads, I think, on your efforts and great work. All interesting and I certainly enjoyed the pics. I don't quite understand all you were doing. My biggest interest right now is supporting the 1/2 blue with the wedge. I suppose this would be about the same as using a woodland scenics incline starter set as the wedge? I've been working on a Unitrack dogbone and at one end - 11" curves - used a 4% incline starter to rise to 1" and another to immediately go down flat again. i.e. it rises to 1" in 2 ft. This is just an experiment for me to see what I can do. Anyway the Unitrack will not lay flat around the curve going up then down. I'm thinking this is because the track needs to be flat at the height 1" for awhile before going back down? I'll try this soon when the part is available. What do you think? My apology for temporarily diverting your thread. The Kato track and wedges have my attention.
Thanks Pete, I agree. I intend to hone my skills on this one and later look at changing or just expanding into the the livingroom. ____________ Ed, yes, indeed, you doing the original plan up in cad program helped me to visualize the space better and know what I could do. Thank you again for that. I think 1&2 are excellent ideas. I can see how it would be possible to stagnate again looking at the blue. Good points. One of the things I'll be doing is cutting into the foam to create depressions / excuses for bridges / trestles. The other is to build up mountains with foam. Day dream expansions will be discussed in a later posting but include the original idea for a mondern city built on air rights over the yard with an elevated bullet train terminal. _________ Hello Jim, Welcome to Trainboard. I have a personal rule: Anyone is welcome to go off topic in my threads.I don't like to stifel thoughts. It's late but I'll try to adress your points. 1) "...supporting the 1/2 blue with the wedge. ...this would be about the same as using a woodland scenic incline starter set as the wedge..." I have never used the Woodland Scenics system though I have seen numerous positive referances to it here on Trainboard. The descriptions of what I saw and price of the WS system inspired what I tried. I am certain that a competent person with the skills required could use foam cut to a wedge instead of other systems. The key phrases in that sentence are "competent person" and "with the skills required". 2) Changing from flat to 4% incline is not a good idea. My experience and what I have seen in other postings is it will cause uncoupling and maybe derailments. In one case on my layout a string of my favorite cars lost their grip (uncoupled) and took a run down a 6% grade. Only my reflexes avoided tradgdy. Any other comments on this would be welcome. I'd suggest a more moderate transisition. 3) I have not run into tight (11") curves on an incline / curve but I have seen even with broader (15, 19 and maybe 28inch) curves that you may experience the tendency of the track to lift off of the outside edge. My first response is to say go with it though supporting it at just the right angle cut into the foam might be tricky. This is one of the areas I ran into my personal limitations. I just don't have the skill set to do it as well as I felt it should be done. My second response is to glue it down flat. I never experimented with it enough to tell you which would be best. I hope this answered your questions but feel free to ask more. Jim - I have visual imitations that make certain observations and tool manipulation somewhat problematic. Yes, I might see the issue or even the cause there of. Just because I feel I did does not mean I am right. Overall I encourage you to use 2 percent grades whenever possible to avoid: 1) Acumate couplers breaking 2) Uncoupling due to transitions (a coupler will 3) Restrictions on train length 4) Unforseen issues which of which the complexities may go up disproportionately with any advantages you may realize. Then again I personally encourage you to push the outside edge of the envelope if you are so inclined and share your experiences here and elsewhere. Hope that helps Steve - The oooops Grey One Edit: Spelling fixed.
Current Track Plan - 10, 9, 07 The daydream expansion includes a dedicated two track passenger line viaduct the entire length of the layout with a reverse loop at the end for non-bullet trains. There will be no link to the other track. Non-bullet locomotives will be turned manually when returning to home. We shall see.
I like this plan and approach. Good decision to scale back for the reasons you gave. I did exactly the same thing, and am VERY happy I did so. It was unbelievable how much weight lifted off of the shoulders once I pulled back on the expectations. Looking forward to your building swap-out idea.
Why don't you add a Wye comming out of the yard .. that way your trains don't have to go in the same direction all the time .. and you can also get back into the yard without backing in .
Jim - A good idea but I don't want to deal with the wiring. Steve - Actually it was your "Bonita River Valley" that inspired this change. I have always admired the simplicity and detail. That is the route I intend to take here. Do you have a new layout?
The Yard and Engine Terminal will remain fairly close to this: Not the final. I'm just playing with ideas. I feel this one has too much track in the center.
Excellent (all be it tough) decision. Sometimes we have to make wrong choices and tough decisions to figure out what we really want. thanks for sharing!
Steve, My first response was rather hurried. So let me share some experiences. My first layout, started in 1972, was L-shaped along a 24 x 11 garage. It had lots of neat design features, and fairly good trackwork--I was heavily into cabinetry and furniture repair in my 20s. No real flaw other than it shared a single stall of a garage with my cabinetry shop. Ooops! It never got much beyond the plywood Pacific stage because I had a daughter in 1975, and then a second in 1978. Over those years, all I managed to do was get a tape web up, to keep engines from falling to the floor, and a number of wonderful scratch-built buildings for the harbor. When I got divorced in 1979, all of the trackwork that I saved were the switches, and some of the electronic circuits that controlled the reversing loop. In the ensuing years, 1980-1991, I built small layouts, and learned some real skills about track joints, grade transitions, and scenery. But more often my time was taken up by soccer games, ballet rehearsals, piano recitals--the things you do when your new family has four daughters. My layouts were little more than roundy-rounds, as I never had much time to figure out operations. But I learned there were good Peco switches and track, and bad MP switches and track. I learned how to scenic Beercan (Bierkan) mountain, and to make water. In all of thses years, there were many times when nothing happened. I was stuck on something--I don't remember now, but it was usually minor. I moved to Albuquerque in 1991 and started on the Dewitt Branch. This was going to be my ultimate layout. The plan looked great; the construction was first rate; the scenery was getting there; a train could run all week on the trackwork. I'd been working on the skills to build this ultimate layout for 20 years. My construction skills were fine. My understanding of how to operate a railroad was poor. Man, I'd been much better off with a simpler layout in that space! I've never done a schematic of the Portsmouth Branch. Agreed, it has the advantage of a large space. But the schematic would show something bone simple--so that I avoid frustration, and can keep the trains running.
Lobster Hand- You gotta do what you gotta do. Please take heart in the fact that your girlfriend is supportive in your hobby.
Thanks for all of the positive feedback and support. Yes Cloud Watcher - Roberta was great! She took the "Doctor Phill approach. "Is it working for you"? That really helped. When it came time to "operate" she did the dismantling and I did the organizing of track. There is something else that is different. If you think back most of my prior layout shots have been cluttered with extraneous foam, track or tools. Under Roberta's influence I kept _everything_ organized even when she was not here. All of the curves were in concentric stacks. 28", 19", 15"... Thus when I needed a certain piece it was strangely enough right where I expected to find it. As I left each area to work on another I would put the left over pieces away first. When it came time to take pictures there was nothing to clean up! Go figure. Next Steps: Another tough decision: I am going to snip the plugs off of the #6 turnouts. I'll leave a 2" tail on them so I can splice them some day if I need to. I will then drill a small hole, shove them through and tie them up nice and neet. In accordance with Ed's outstanding suggestion I am going to get a nice light sand color paint. Trees will be next. The hardest part will be designing the center of the ovals. It would be easy to do what I call "The Wescott Horseshoe" but that would probably give a crowded appearance. Then again it might give me a chance at some street running. Hmmmm I've started a thread here: How do You Fill The Center of an Oval - TrainBoard.com "How to fill the center of an Oval" Enough planning for now. Time to get back to work.
The Plan Takes Shape After posting in the "Layout Design Forum" Pete - that was key. It is much easier to deal with smaller areas. Thanks! Here are the results: I "divided" it with the reverse loop. I have _no_ idea of how I will treat the area to the left of center. There will be something where the industry to the right of center is. I think when Roberta is here it may be a passenger station for 2-6-0 excursion trips. That track arrangement will likely change some. I'm running short on cash, track and turnouts so I'll be forced to keep it simple. Fire Chief - Well - I think I did just what you suggested. Pete thanks for the idea and plan. Frisco - There is 5"s between the rear track and the wall. I intend to put an elevated viaduct there. But, wait, why not put one long staging track under it? Hmmmmmmm. thanks for the idea!
even with your reverse loop, you still have no way to get back to your passenger terminal. reverse one of the crossovers on the back wall tracks.
John - Yes, I anticipate having to back up either at the beginning or the end of the trip. Thanks for pointing it out. I'm not sure why the right rear turnouts are pointed that way. I'll study it a bit.
Grey One, Watching your layout evolve has been fun and interesting. The feedback you've received from the forum has been beneficial to a lot of us too. I couldn't agree more with what TRT2 said. Pete goes on to expand on that idea. I think every model railroaded has been down the same path you are on. What really make this and your other G&G threads so good is your willingness to lay it out there for everyone else to see. It's not easy to risk public criticism. Thanks for being willing to do so!
Well Cof-Ga - Thanks though don't put me on too high of a pedestal. < wry grin >. I've a strong deep belief in Karma. Oh, and an independent streak a "yard wide and a mainline long". Besides all that it is safe here on Trainboard.
I like this design also, with a few tweaks, it will be a nice railroad. It is a far cry better from the other one you had going with the steep grades, the coffee cup holding up the track .. while it is ok to push the envelope, sometimes the best ways are the old ways. My only other suggestion, unless you really need this, is to use the "town" spur to add a couple of turnouts, one on each side, and add a couple more industries. The town can go along the side ..
