Please don't hit me, I know this is the last kind of thread you guys want to see again. I have a few questions that I haven't seen in the other vs. threads. I want to make sure I'm clear on a few points before I order. I have read both manuals and a couple of comparison articles some I'm not completely going into this thing blind. as I am planning a 36x80 door layout in N scale and hoping to expand it later, either of these are more than I'll ever need, especially being expandable. Here are some things on my mind and feel free to tell me if you disagree or know an answer: 1. From what I've read, seems like both companies have less than excellent tech support. I feel like with the zephyr I would get plenty of assistence if needed since everyone and their brother has one on the message boards. By the same token I feel like the zephyr would more likely require assistance. 2. Does one system or the other seem to have more compatibility issues with certain brands of decoders? For example I heard using digitrax systems with some lenz decoders doesn't work without modification... 3. I like the fact that the zephyr has jump ports to use 2 dc powerpacks as additional throttles but I was wondering how much does it cost to buy another cab for the NCE? Is it a lot more than a powerpack? does it give more control than using a powerpack as a throttle with the zephyr? 4. I have in my mind that Tony's is a popular place to buy because they stand behind and support what they sell. Is that still true, and are there other places you can recommend to shop for one? 5. I'm a little unclear on the MUing. seems like the zephyr supports 4 kinds and the powercab only 2. Is that a big deal in reality? I'm very interested in muing 2 engines together and once I expand my door to 2 or more, very, very interested. 6. Someone told me it's better to break-in new locos on DC, is that true? Does the zephyr's ability to run one DC loco count the same as running with a DC powerpack for break-in or does that work differently? It's kind of a screwed up situation because I don't club, and I'm not going to. I may or may not have many users other than myself (time will tell). I have a couple of nephews and my dad seems somewhat interested in "playing trains" as he calls it. I like the fact that the NCE is handheld and seemingly much more intuitive due mostly to the nice display. But it also seems like it's just plain easier to operate 2-3 locos by yourself with the powercab? I mean switching back and forth with control of them and so forth.. I also like the fact that the zephyr has a "zephyr for dummies" type of book on the market, yet glad the powercab doesn't need one. I do have to feel like I have a certain amount of help as I undoubtedly will have some growing DCC pains. sounds like most of it will come via the internet and in that case, it just seems like the zephyr has a clear advantage with so many users. Anyway, if anyone has comments onthose 5 points/questions, that will help me wrap up this decision. Thanks to all and please respect each other as I know this can be a touchy subject. I'm just looking for guidance, not trying to start a fight. My gut feeling is that I can't go wrong with either system for my use. I'm very excited about learning more about it and getting started. Thanks, eric
1. I have never needed tech support for Digitrax, but I have heard good and bad stories about both cmopanies. 2. I haven't had any trouble programming Lenz decoders(I only have two, everything else is Digitrax except for the MRC in my Challenger), but I do know that some people have. The fix is simply a 1k resistor across the rails, so it isn't really a modification. The cause of this problem is that the Zephyr has a seperate porgramming track output with a reduced current(which is to protect user installed decoders if they are not installed correctly) and the resistor causes the Zephyr to use more current. 3. I would not purchase powerpacks to use with the jump ports. It is a neat feature if you already have some powerpacks lying around, but otherwise I would just save up and get regular throttles. 4. I have never bought from Tony's, but I have heard not anything bad about them. 5. They both support 3 types of Muing. There is what some people call "brute force", which is just prorgramming the locos to the same address, commmand station consisting, where all consist information is stored in the command station, and advanced, or decoder assisted, consisting, where the decoder is given a consist address. Digitrax and NCE are pretty much the same as far as what you can do with creating and running consists, but NCE does have some added ease-of-use features with their "double ended consist." 6. It is not neccessary to break in a Loco before installing a decoder, but I would definetly test run it first, and I would not test run it on on the Zephyr. The resaon is some locos running characteristics are different when run on the pseudo DC control of DCC and I would want to know how the engine runs on true DC before installing the decoder. If you do any speed matching, you do want to break in the engines before matching them, but this can be done after installing the decoders. Here are some points to ponder: Out of the box, the PowerCab will only support one additional throttle, and with the SmartBooster, three additional throttles. This means that if both nephews, your dad and you all want to run trains at the same time, with the PowerCab you would have to upgrade to the SmartBooster. To go beyond four throttles with the PowerCab, you have to upgrade to the PowerHouse Pro system. The Zephyr will support 10 throttles out of the box. Also, when operating by yourself, if you want to run 2-3 trains, this is easier with Digitrax if you get a DT400 throttle, because it is like having two throttles in one. It has two knobs on it so you can have direct control engines.
Well here are my thoughts, having operated both in the past though neither for some time. I was introduced to DCC on the NCE system. It is a very solid, high-end system that is easily expandable with more boosters and can handle a very heavy load. I used it on the HO club layout linked in my sig with large traffic volume and MU'd consists. Most of the locos were Atlas RS1s and RS3s (both old and new). Toward the end we started adding some of the new high-end steam (specifically the Athearn 2-8-2s with Soundtraxx decoders) and a few of the P2K PAs. It was not uncommon to have upwards of 30 locos in operation across 2 power districts. I found the control system relatively intuitive with programming being a breeze and making/breaking consists also quite easy. I was exposed to Digitrax (a base system) at a club member's home layout. Took me a bit to get used to with changing systems, but once I got the hang of it the level of ease was about the same. At that point they did not have the Zephyr or the DT400 (the controller similar to NCE's ProCab) which made the transition a little more lengthy. I purchased a Zephyr for my small portable layout for several reasons. Mainly I didn't need the power of a full system (Zephyr has only a 2.5 amp power supply, where the Digitrax base systems and the NCE one has a 5 amp) using mostly newer N scale locos with newer decoders, nor did I need the walkaround capability. The Zephyr was much less expensive than any system yet still fit what I needed. It was the first low-end system to have full 4-digit address capability (instead of 2). Finally, you can fully upgrade the Zephyr once you have a larger layout to a high-end system using the Digitrax line without having to ditch your original setup. With my DCC experience I was able to setup and get the Zephyr running pretty quickly with minimal manual reference. Now to answer your questions directly. 1 - Have always used Tony's for DCC support. They have always been very helpful, plus they were local to my location (they are in VT, I was in NY/MA at the time). 2 - Personally I have not had any decoder issues 3 - Check Tony's website for prices. There are different levels of controllers you can buy for either set, each with different functionality levels. Generally though you will not be able to use the additional functions on decoders through a DC cab (like lights, sound, etc). 4 - See #1 5 - MUing can be done in several ways. With the NCE system (4-digit decoder addresses) we always assigned the loco number to the decoder. Then we used the last two digits of the lead loco for the consist assignment (up to 128 consists). You could then operate the consist from the consist number. When we broke a consist all of the locos assigned to it would drop out. You could also drop a single unit from the consist if you wanted. FYI this is called "advanced consisting." I think the Zephyr is similar in that you can do advanced consisting with it since it uses 4-digit addresses. I forget the simple way of consisting (because I rarely did it) but you can also simply assign all decoders in your consist the same address and they'd respond accordingly. The decoder address is stored on the chip in the loco, so if you assigned your loco address "1234" and ran it, then took it to another DCC layout, punched "1234" into the controller, you would control that unit. When you setup a consist, that is both the unit AND the base station. I must say it was VERY easy to recall locos/consists on the NCE ProCab. I think it can store up to 6? consists/locos for you in a recall stack that you can quickly switch between when running multiple sets. I used it a lot in the yard (when running lite power from one end to the other and switching) or when using helpers from one controller. One of the Digitrax controllers can control two consists/locos simultaneously with two seperate speed control knobs. 6 - Never heard that before, and never done it. Have had no abnormal issues operating units used solely on DCC track (several hundred hours run time combined). Your final conclusion is pretty much right. You say you're not interested in clubs, but really the best way to know which you like better is to run them. Perhaps you can get an opportunity at a train show or go to a larger LHS to see if you can get a demo.
Robert and Corey have covered it pretty well. A point I'd like to clarify is that there are two kinds of DCC signals, power/control and programming. The programming signals are applied to a separate track, your "programming track". By making a simple switch box, as I've described before, I make a siding that can switch between DCC rail power/control and programming. The 1k ohm resistor that Robert refers to is only needed for the programming track, and only for newer Atlas/Lenz and Digitrax decoders which transmit information back to the Zephyr at levels of electrical current too low for the Zephyr to detect. I have Atlas locos with factory installed decoders that have this problem. The 1k ohm resistor took care of it. I added a second switch in my switch box to make the 1k ohm resistor selectable when the siding is in programming mode. Tony's web site is excellent. They aren't the cheapest online so I haven't bought much from them. But if you're getting into DCC they have the only meter I know of that accurately measures DCC power (amperage) being pulled by the layout. This is because AC amps are calculated in RMS and most meters only calculate this accurately when applied to a sine-wave; DCC uses a varying pulse width square wave. Tony's has their own meter designed/calibrated to measure DC, DCC, or AC power; both volts and amps. Here's a link: RRampMeter Application Notes from Tony's Train Exchange | Tech News at Tony's Train Exchange.
I think most have been covered by other folks. I would like to add that Litchfield Station is another good DCC vendor. Bruce is very knowledge and is a certified Digitrax installer. His prices (*I think*) are slightly better than Tony's. They do offer free shipping for over $50 orders. Litchfield Station, Home Page
