Hello all... getting to that point very quickly...track and wiring...so it's time for me to 'you-know-what' or 'get-off-the-pot'... lol...and I don't want to 'get off the pot'....I want to 'You-know-what'! I'm wiring my "Layout for the 'Santa Fe' room" for DC right now...not saying that I'll not , eventually, convert it to DCC, but, definitely, not at this time... The layout is a test track, a 'stage' for my ATSF trains, a funiture piece, a model train photography 'prop'...it's not an 'end-all' operating layout...that being said, I am making it as 'scale' as possible, and I want to add a lot of things new to me...operating signals, motorized switch machines, etc... But, basically, it's a layout to watch pretty and prototypically accurate model trains run through prototypically-looking New Mexican scenery...(I'd love to, eventually, add a couple of removable-collapsible 'wings' to each side; to better faciltate some staging of trains, and perhaps a loop to provide even larger continuous running....i've allowed for this with the two junctions...but that's still in the future) I AM wiring it completely two rail, and , even, if I wasn't running it with more than one cab, I'm isolating it into blocks...easier to troubleshoot ANY kind of electrical probs, plus make it DCC friendly if/when that time comes... Here is a quick diagram of the idea i have for blocking the layout... The labels for the blocks are temporary (North and South tracks provided the symbols, 'Y' for yard), they'll be changed to more ATSF 'railroad-y' names when the time comes to build a control panel... I'm soliciting criticism on the validity of this diagram... I have no problem wiring it with all the terminal blocks, rotary switches, etc, necessary to block it this way... ( I've received fantastic advice by many here on Tethered throttle choices!) I'm just curious as to what those who run DC think...is it practical? Would you change anything? This is how I envision it 'working'..... for the most part two trains will be 'on' the layout' (until i add a staging yard)...one on the inner loop of double track (N for North), and one on the outer loop of double track (S for South) To enable trains to change tracks (the two junctions enter the South track), I'm including a Crossover 'junction' (I don't know what the ATSF, or railroaders, in general, call it)...but, I see them everywhere on the ATSF-BNSF, protected by signal bridges. I've divided the crossover area into three seperate blocks, because it's the only thing I know to do for this situation...by having these three blocks able to be controlled by three seperate cabs, a switcher, setting out cars for the two little spurs, could use blocks S2 and S3 (part of the south Main) as a 'yard lead'...the switcher could also use block N2 to run around the set out cars.... so...in this case...all blocks would be controlled by rotary switches...4 postions...cab A, cab B, cab C, and 'off'.... I just realized that I should seperate the two spur tracks into two seperate 'blocks'... apart from this, does the block diagram make sense? Sincerely, Bruce
Bruce, I looked over your schematic and other then adding in one additional block for the two dead end spurs. In other words move the isolating gap back to the other side of the switches and block both dead end spurs. This way you can park an L.A.B.C. lash-up of Santa Fe Warbonnets, into one dead end spur and hold it there. While you pull a Santa Fe Zebra Stripe out of the other dead end spur to work a local. Did you read how I used DPDT toggles, Cab A and Cab B. and was able to use it to add or install DCC? If not here it is: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?114242-DPDT-22-Gauge-Wire-Cab-A-Cab-B&highlight= The best of both worlds. After reviewing the diagram again, the gap by the S3 indicator, you don't need that one. One more thought. I don't see the need for three Cabs. Wire everything to Cab A and Cab B. My thinking is the trains on the main will beat you back to the junction before you can engage the switcher...if you get my drift. I would put in a DPDT toggles and then cut one in between Cab A and my DCC Cab. That way Cab A can be Analog DC and with the flip of a switch it becomes DCC. You are good to go!
Just to add, I'd put insulators on both legs of the turnout on the upper-left, remove the insulators between S1 and S4 and like Rick mentioned, get rid of the insulators at S3, or better yet, move them so they're half-way in the 180degree turn. This will give you two roughly equal-length blocks(S3 &S4)! Trevor D.
It also depends on what track you are using. If your turnouts are power routing you can, at least for now, skip the wiring to the spurs. If naught else put the gaps in and then hard wire them for future use. As for the rest of it I can't really tell.
Bruce, it's been years since I had to think about DC wiring, and just looking at your relatively simple diagram gives me a headache... The only other comment I would make is I'm not sure why you think two-rail is easier to troubleshoot or somehow more DCC friendly. My experience. Is the opposite; common rail simplifies things dramatically and that means fewer places and connections where problems can occur... My converted layout is full DCC now, and I use common rail as well... My two cents worth.... Actually, a lot more than two cents if you think about it.... Regards, and have fun! Otto
The word "Common" is often misused to describe a "Neutral Wire". Allow me to elaborate. This disadvantage with Common Rail or Common Wire is you never have the complete circuit shut down, just one side of it. Another is, if you reverse one circuit to run trains simultaneously, in the opposite direction, you end up with a halting, stammering, stuttering type of performance. You are by far better off to operate Cab A or Cab B on independent DPDT circuits. Also, when you do cut in DCC via a DPDT you are completely shutting down the analog DC. It's imperative one completely shuts down the other via a DPDT toggle. Completely shutting down both legs of one or the other side of the circuit. One caution, you don't want to run Analog DC on Cab A while operating DCC on Cab B, if you wire with a common rail or common wire. Simply put, it ties the two together and that's not a healthy mix. I hope that helps.
DCC is the simplest form of wiring in that all you need under your table is one duel (2) wire bus. A high and low, wires that hooks into all your wire drops. You don't need the various blocks...unless...as with us old timers, we want to shut down the power to a storage track. I prefer that. For the rest of us who started out wiring our layouts to Cab A and Cab B. via DPDT standards...we are good to go. Here is the advantage Otto, is talking about. If you completely switch your layout over to DCC, you can use the Analog Common as either the high or low side of the DCC. If I read Otto right, he no longer operates with Analog DC, Cab A or Cab B. Which is by far better then his previous operations with a "Common Wire". It's no longer a "Common" as it isn't tied in to (2) two Analog DC power supplies. That would be a round about definition when describing a "Common"...tied in to (2) two Analog DC power supplies. Enjoy your wiring project.
I would go ahead and Block/isolate you turnouts for the future because if you go with block detection you don't want you trains diapering on the turnouts and trouble shooting is easier because most of the problems occur at or on the turnouts I also noticed that you have enough blocks assigned that you could go for a BDL168 I believe this unit will work with a DC layout
Huh??? Common rail wiring may be a decades- old approach, but it works; I don't know where you get the " halting,stammering, shuttering type of performance". I had six cabs on single pole rotary selectors and it worked fine thank you, as do hundreds of other layouts.... There is nothing wrong with using DP switches or selectors and two rail wiring. But there's nothing wrong with single - rail either... and it is simpler. Regards, Otto
Sorry, Otto, no offense meant. I do know of a number of clubs where they started out using a common wire approach and later changed to DPDT standards. Due to the halting and uneven running when operating trains in the opposite directions at the same time. One electrical engineer stated that what we were witnessing on the club layout is the electricity looking for it's home port and wanting to return to such. Doing this by going through each operating locomotive causing the motor to momentarily flutter or vibrate forward and backwards. Just talking from my personal experience. I do dig on the idea of using the old common to serve as either the high or low side of DCC. That works great.
