Good morning! I'm a newbie of this forum, and I want to present my new project. I'm planning to build a Whitcomb 65-de-14a, the class that would become the fs class Ne120-d143. The body will be built using styrene, and the mechanism I found to be suitable is the one of the Rivarossi sw1500, although it needs some work to fit the body... My question is: is there anyone that used this chassis to make a Whitcomb? And how I can improve running on this mech? Thank you!
I make a resin kit for that using the Tomytec mechamism, see my randgust.com page; kits available. Five different cabs including the Italian post-war conversions. The hood gets too narrow at the top to use almost anything but the Tomytec mechanism, lots of grinding. It's really, really tight. I've also successfully put gearhead motors in it and the one I switch with has a Kato motor with a 5.14:1 Gizmoszone gearhead reduction in it. That solves the problem of the Rivarossi rocket drive. The Tomytec motor and flywheels set is to the back, the Kato/Gizmozone is to the front. I also do custom builds, this is Columbus & Greenville 41 w/custom decals printed. I've got the Italian version cabs for old and new - this is the newer one. This is also before I converted the kit over to etched brass steps. I did the Ne120 cab as an option. You can get parts from me if you want specific things, but I'll tell you on the start that it's tough sledding. I've shipped a lot of these over to Italy and am a member of a Yahoo group over there with a lot of translation help. This one was a custom build for one of those members. I do the brass soldered handrails. I have a good friend that got me a lot of shots of these over in Italy about eight years ago. As far as I know, there are only a handful of these in operational condition in the US; one is at the Wannamaker, Kempton & Southern in Pennsylvania, the other is at the Kingston Trolley Museum at Kingston, NY. I have good detail photography of both if you need pictures of the US versions. As far as performance of the one-truck powerplant, it's all lead above that truck. Here's a video of a stock Tomytec (not gearhead) mechanism test I did for a customer on a custom-build prior to shipping (he wanted to decal and weather it, so it's all pretty). The entire history of these locomotives prewar and postwar is just fascinating. They went all over the US for industrial and shortlines, as well as scattered all over Europe.
judging from Italian's Whitcomb plans, but also from photos, the hood is square type, not slope type. As far as I know, there are two series of the Whitcomb 65ton, one returned to USA after wwII, and one was purchased by Ferrovie dello Stato....So I think I can fit Rivarossi chassis in it.
Information and a good number of photos in this topic: http://www.trainboard.com/highball/...ochelle-il-and-doing-whitcomb-research.64176/
Yeah, I actually split the shell and expanded it at the top on one of my Italian ones to square it up on one. Not as tough as going the other way. The Rivarossi should be able to have enough clearance around that underslung motor, but bottom line is that's a really tough way to go in comparison to some other options for performance as that motor, gearing and pickup are tough to tune and get any reliable slow speed. I've got Whitcomb dimensions of 22' 10" from truck center to truck center on mine. I've got an NE120 drawing that shows 7315 mm as truck centers, that's almost 24 feet, so that's always been a puzzle to me on the difference. I've also got one Ne120 drawing that shows a tapered hood (looks like immediately postwar), and one that shows a square. I'm imagining that when they were rebuilt with the new power plant that was the time for squaring up the hood.
Wheelbase way too short, wheels to small, no way to change either. That's why I'm a big fan of the Tomytec chassis design - they can be modified to fit just about anything, you can put any motor in there you want if there is space, and they have a variety of truck wheelbases. The other thing is that they are built to just snap on the sideframes, so you can put any sideframe on that you've got. They aren't particularly expensive, either.
thank you so much! But I don't agree about Tomytec chassis, I think that their wheels are too small...
Trucks I've been using have a .20215" (33") wheel on a 7'6" wheelbase. Typical EMD SW is a 42" wheel on a 8' wheelbase. My Whitcomb drawings show 42" wheels on a 7' wheelbase, so it's all a compromise somewhere. The real difference on the Tomytec trucks is that they've got bigger flanges which looks a lot bigger visually, if you want to use C55 you've got to turn them a bit, with the end-axle pickups and split axles its actually fairly easy. But they are end-axle pickups and if you keep the wiper/spring system intact as designed, equalize and pickup wonderfully. I'd be curious what photos you've found of the Ne120, because I thought it was darn hard and other than some HO models, never saw a color shot anywhere - just post WWII black and whites on some Italian modeling sites. The De143 version has a lot of current shots, including good color ones I have. I'm assuming you're dealing with this chassis? http://www.spookshow.net/loco/files/cowmech1.jpg
Hello! Well I found lot of photos in a Italian magazine (it was a special run, where they wrote about Italian' switchers) and on a website (www.photorail.com) ...There were also color photos! The mech on spookshow is identical to mine, It's a old rivarossi. By now I've been working on some electrical issues.
By now I replaced the old Rivarossi 3-pole armature with a new one taken from a Fleischmann 3-pole motor. I had to demotorize one bogie, but it can still pull a good row of cars, and now it runs much more smoothly!
I was wondering if I could scratchbuild a chassis and using only rivarossi bogies...does anyone tried a similar kitbash?
The problem with those is that the worm gear to worm interface is so low. If you look at it from the side, the motor shaft runs about frame level or below. Nearly ever other truck gear design ever made gets the worm/worm gear up above the frame to line it up with the motor shaft above the frame. The only deviations from that of real note is the Kato NW2, and that does it with a gear transfer box to lower the shafts below the frame, but the worm is mounted on the truck itself. http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/kato-nw2-chassis.119200/ The other problem you'll run into with the Rivarossi drive is that it pivots the truck on the worm/worm gear interface. On sharper curves, it tends to slow the motor down as it binds that up. If you really, really, really run it hard enough to wear it in (brass gears on the truck) it will polish it up to the point where that lessens, but it sure takes a long time. It's also hard to keep that gear tolerance just right on a Rivarossi. The offset Tomytec design pivots the truck on the universal of the driveshaft rather than on the worm/worm gear, so it's capable of very tight curves with no binding/slowdown. Same thing with the Kato, pivot on the universal, not on the gear itself. When I had a Rivarossi, I was contantly tinkering with it; cleaning the motor, contacts, adjusting that gear tolerance with shims, and don't miss any of that one bit. To me it kind of speaks volumes that nobody ever imitated that drive again, including when Con-Cor worked with Kato to produce a replacement SW1500 mechanism in the same body.
I think you're right So i decided to kitbash the original metal chassis, using a more tighter can motor instead of the bulky and noisy round motor. I'm also going to make some changes to improve pickup.
Randgust, Have you recently considered upsizing the Whitcomb to HO through Shapeways? My eyes aren't what they used to be. That is why I switched to HO.
Somebody did it in brass in HO and did a really nice job of it, I studied the photos of that model a lot before I did mine. Hallmark maybe? The sloped sides and curves of that would just be a mess with RP. You couldn't get the print lines out, and you couldn't sand it without loosing detail. Some things work OK and some things don't. I can still do a better, smoother surface in resin than I can in RP. It's getting better all the time though. The battle that I was always fighting with the pickups on the Rivarossi mech was that to keep it smooth, you have to lubricate all those all-brass gears a lot to keep them from wearing out. And it was constantly throwing that lubrication over the truck contacts, and they are a loose-fit between the stamped-steel truck holders and the plastic truck frame, and you had to get the tension set just right so it neither bound up the trucks or got too loose to not scrape the lubrication off. Constant lubricate/clean/lubricate/clean cycle. But at least you've ditched that awful motor. I ended up cutting access holes in it to be able to polish and clean the commutator as the soft carbon brushes were filling the slots and producing fire rings on a regular basis. High maintenance, N scale style.
hi there! The Whitcomb is near the completition! As I din't want to turn crazy with RivaRossi chassis, I used the two tomytec bogies that where sitting alone taking dust. The motor is a Kato one from a critter.
here is my FS class Ne120 just finished, now it only need a good and reliable mech to fit in, maybe tomytec or greenmax. I also found that Concor sw1500 can fit in, as the NW2 kato.
