If I figure right (rarely, but occasionally I get lucky), and a switch is aligned against an approach, then there should be a red light on that track. Otherwise green, or no signal, or??? What's a good online reference on basic track signals?
Ask Mark M. aka McGoo a retired signal maintainer, who stared working for the railroads, during the years of Southern Pacific and retiring during the Union Pacific takeover. On Tehachapi Pass. He has a number of videos out on how signalling works both electronically and the correct use of the signals red, green, yellow and a blue flag. Check out the Southern Pacific, Tehachapi Train Station in Tehachapi for a complete run down on signals and how they were used. Mark is the real deal and is the type of person I rely on for my railroad information. Now in the world of Model Railroading, there are plenty of elctronic gurus here on TrainBoard who can help you out. Here's a hint. His call sign is Sharkman . I hope that helps.
I would need to see an illustrated diagram of what you are asking about. Typically the signals before and after the switch face away from the switch. You might find a signal facing the switch as a indicator for the single track mainline the train is entering. That doesn't happen very often. Usually the signal the engineer would read before entering the switch would tell him what's ahead of him and at what speed he can proceed. If that helps.
HA ya i dont believe any of that hot wheel stuff. i used to sit and watch trains roll by every day and saw many many cars with hot wheels axles ect. some cars where bouncing right and left because of bad wheels almost to the point of trowing the cars off the rails and not once have i ever seen a train stop to check out any thing. They just throttle on. every day ive seen this. I lived right by the tracks so i got to see lots of stuff going on many cool cars and lots of graffiti sometimes catch somebody riding. . a few dumping what ever the load was down the rails. tankers leaking what ever load they had. if that stuff he says works great but ive yet to see any of it....them train's dont stop until a derailment then they stop. my views real world.......not what they want the press to know about....
A thought occurred to me about your layout. With it's name, you ought to name your passenger cars after Western Authors [Louis Lamour, Zane Grey, etc] or characters in great westerns [Jacob McCandles, Matthew Quigley, Patience Barton, etc].
Help me understand what you are hee hawing at. Like you I've seen trains run by with smoking axles and flat wheels that had the freight car yawing all over the place. But that was years ago.
Just thinking out loud, but from what I've read so far, typical searchlight signals show one of three colors (red, yellow, green) meaning stop, caution (slow), and go, respectively. Since I'm not interested in occupancy detection, I'll just use the signals to protect mis-aligned switches. Along with using LCC to control the switches, I'm also looking at controlling their protecting signals, so throwing a switch also changes the signals. Occupancy detection could be added later, but not likely. I'm looking at this as more of a "play with signals" exercise, rather than having a complete block occupancy signaling system. LCC nodes include the ability to implement the necessary logic based on their own and other nodes' status. In general, if I'm approaching a mis-aligned switch, I want a red signal telling me to stop until I have thrown said switch to let me go (e.g. from a siding back onto the main.) Furthermore, if I'm approaching the near end of a siding from the main, and the near switch for that siding is aligned to the siding, but the far switch is still aligned to the main, then I want a yellow (caution) signal on the mainline approach to the near switch, and a red signal at the siding approach to the far switch, until the far switch is thrown to the siding, allowing me to proceed back onto the main. That would mean six signals for a double-ended siding. But I could start out with just (4) signals to protect mis-aligned switches, and add additional signals outside both ends of the siding on the main later. So, it's really just a simple half-way to 'operate' some signals with at least some utility, but without having to add occupancy detection. And the signals will still change (as I throw switches) even if only one train is on the layout. Clear as mud? Great!
Pardon me while I wipe the grin off my face. Well put!! As a youngster in my pre-teens. I figured out how to wire-in signals to protect the switches on my layout. Today they would call it hard wiring. On the Atlas switch machine there is a metal somewhat springy wire that moves the switch points. I managed to heat that up with a hot wire. A little soldering here and a little there. Two nails on either side with a wire that went to a green light on one side and red light on the other. No search light signals yet. Just a two bulb signal. When the switch was thrown against or closed to the diverging or curved section you would have a red light. When the switch was open you'd have a green light. I was able to use the same wiring for the signal on the straight side of the switch as well. All facing away from the switch. All dwarf signals. My history teacher saw that and gave me extra credits. Ended up with a B instead of a C. Thanks old chap. He was English and served in the Royal Navy during WWII. Made history come to life. His class and classroom was a favorite of mine. Today's switch machines make it hard to do that. Go figure! Okay, that's enough from me for now. Want to get some stuff done.
Sorry, I missed this before I wrote the above post. Yes, these signals would face away from each switch, to notify a train approaching the switch from any track. As I alluded above, I might start with just the two signals on (and facing away from) the branches of the Y of each switch, and add the one on the "trunk" of the Y later. Without occupancy detection, the latter would never show red, but could show green or yellow, based on the relative status of the near- and far-end switches to the siding. And I can do this without adding any occupancy detection, which is a whole 'nother can o' worms.
Rick, I actually thought about that (not using the spring, but the selectively powered rails on a power-routing Unitrack switch). But if I'm using LCC to control the switch, I already know the status of the switch, and LCC allows me to use that information to assist controlling other nodes (like signals). In essence, the signals will operate as if there were no (other) trains on the tracks. Hey, it's enough to give me some lights that actually convey useful information. Prototypical or not, that's enough for me.
Sounds good to me. You should of seen what I did with three rail. No time at the moment to get into it here but it worked like CTC. Of course it wasn't but it worked well.
I think you have the right idea with your signal indications @BigJake . I'd start with the basics as you describe and once they're in place, you can seek to expand indications (such as yellow aspect at a diverging entrance to a siding and an "absolute" (red) signal at the end of the siding.) Keep in mind that you'll likely not be able to easily see the signals unless you position yourself along a line of track, but your concept is very cool and worth exploring. I love this sort of thing. I'd like to mess around with something similar on my railroad someday, but as for now I'll be content with simple LEDs indicating switch positions and block power (mine is primarily a DC road with an option to run DCC) on my control panel. One exception will be an IR detector near a track bumper on a hidden track in a mountain that will illuminate an LED somewhere.
I'm looking to do something similar with a section of track (4 tracks) that run through a closet. I plan on using overhead signal towers to help disguise the holes through the wall and want the signal aspects to indicate if the track is open or in use and if the turnouts are thrown appropriately. I look forward to seeing your take on a solution.
Showing the occupancy status of the hidden tracks requires sensing the presence of a train. There are lots of ways to do that, but for me, beyond the scope of my layout and discussion. I have no hidden tracks, so I can simply look if a track is occupied. What is harder to see is whether a switch is thrown such that I cannot enter it (from the diverging or through route). For my proposed installation, a signal in front of a double-ended siding would indicate (yellow) if the far end switch did not match the near end switch, meaning I don't have to stop short of the near switch, but there will be a stop signal (red) at the far end switch as I approach it. As long as both switches on the siding are thrown the same, I should always see green (again, I'm not detecting or indicating occupancy).
I should have said, I have no hidden sidings. I am planning on a fairly long (for an HCD layout) tunnel on the mainline. Maybe I need to think about some easy occupancy detection... Or, given that the tunnel will be open to the back of the layout, maybe a mirror on the wall behind the layout would be a low tech occupancy indication! On the other hand, I have also seen some pretty simple IR occupancy detectors that could drive a signal... Uh oh; requirements creep!
I've not installed it yet, but I bought my IR Detector from Azatrax. With your experience in Electrical Engineering, you could "roll your own" for a whole lot less money.
Thanks for the link. Just cuz I can roll my own, doesn't mean I wouldn't rather purchase a designed, tested and supported product, even if I might take a peak to see how they rolled theirs!
I'm toying with getting rid of the innermost loop on the right side, which would eliminate all my 9.75R curves, leaving 11R minimum radius on the layout. All of the 11R is surrounded (eased) by longer radius curves, and not adjacent to tangent track. The intended utility of the inner loop was to move the switching freight traffic off the main part of the figure 8, thus allowing a/the through train to run the dogbone and the figure 8 in sequence, without as much interference from a local freight working the right-hand loop industries. A little bit of interference is fun and challenging; a lot of interference is a pain. But how often would I want to run both circuits in sequence anyway? And while working a local freight? I can keep the three stub sidings there (moved to the former outer loop) but that drastically shortens the length of the stub siding at the bottom of the RH loop. I've already got the WS H&H Feed Mill, that would be fine for the short (5+") siding, and the most interesting side of that structure (with the blower & ductwork) is the track side, facing the user anyway. The operating plan for the layout is basically for a through freight (or passenger) train to orbit on the folded dogbone, while a local freight is dis/assembled and serves the industries, dodging the through train while working between the yard, the A/D track (outer track loop on left end) and the industries inside left and right loops. Just trying to find a good balance between "operating interest" and "pain in the arse."
Like the plans for the layout... Had one thought though... With that double cross-over on the second tack up from the bottom over at the left it looks like only 1 or 2 cars at a time could be moved to the first and second tracks from the bottom. Though that moving it over to the right might allow for moving more cars at a time. Sumner
That's some slick image editing to illustrate your point; I appreciate it! The outer track of the double tracks around the left loop is both the arrival/departure track and the yard lead. This preserves the most yard track space for railcars, but sacrifices the ability to dis/assemble one train while another is waiting on the A/D track. I think (hope) I can live with that. The two tracks extending left into the corner are for yard- and road-loco service/parking. The double-track stubs inside the left hand loop will likely host a maintenance/repair shop for locos and/or railcars. The third track may be a RIP track. I must have tried dozens of different ideas for the yard design, but I had not considered your idea yet. Thanks for giving me new ideas to consider, and encouraging me to take a fresh look at it. After (yet another) look at that area, I noticed my right-most double crossover really only needs to be a single LH crossover, which increases that top yard track usable length/capacity (every little bit helps!) Keep 'em coming!
