RPP and Do people Still swap motors?

So I was in My local hobby shop yesterday just looking around seeing what was available (they stock a lot of Atlas, Genesis , Intermountain and Proto2000) and I asked the Gentleman behind the counter where he kept the Rail power product Shells?
He asked what those were.

Now, I haven't purchased anything for HO in at least 5 years since I have been busy with college and then moved into an apartment and then moved far away from my parents home which had been the location of my Empire. But, When I was purchasing, RPP was a given. That was how you made a good looking SD45, that was how you made a CF7 or an SD-60M. etc. etc.

How is it that within 5 years, the man behind the counter has never heard of them? and he was not a young guy and seemed knowledgeable about the industry.

And now to the Meat of my question. One of the Givens of Rail Power products was that they were a drop on fit to Athern Frames. Then perhaps a Can motor Swap out and you have a sweet locomotive. Now adays all I read about is swapping Athern Drives for Kato or Atlas Doesn't anybody use Can motors any more?

Atlas and Kato Drives are expensive and hard to find. Can motors are relativly Cheap and Easy. The upgrade isn't much more complex then the typical Kato/Atlas conversion. So what happened? Why the sudden move away from the less expensive and arguably equally easy meathod to the more expensive meathod?

And what Happened to Rail Power Products?

 

Point your search engine for Alliance Locomotive Works or Products. They now make the Helix Humper motor, which is a perfect drop in for that Athearn you have. They use the same rubber mounts and the motor is isolated. You can get the econo version for around $20 with no flywheels or you can pay an extra $10 to get one with the flywheels. They are great little motors.

Yes, I still re-do my Athearns with these motors, and NWSL wheels, before I put new decoders in them.

Check out my web page and I got a picture of the install with a Helix Humper motor.

 

So, lets see, Typical Powered Athern is $30-$40, This simple Drop in is $20-$30
So you're talking a total of $50-$70 for a great engine.
Tell me again why people buy Expensive Locos?

RPP Shells are around $10-$20 with Custome Athern Compatible Frames included the cost is up around $30.

 

Details.

To get a RPP or Athearn model to the same level of detail as the Atlas, Kato or P2K stuff costs about the same amount of money, but takes time to build. It's your call.

 

Rob is right, especially with some of the recent releases of Atlas in particular, the quality of detail, running qualities and paint job combined make it unlikely that it would be cheaper to make your own, and speaking personally I doubt I could make them look as good.

With regards to Proto, you can get some serious discounts if you hunt around that make them little more expensive than Athearn. Less so with some of the other manufacturers...as an example, in the July MR I have in front of me, Trainworld have certain P2K GP30, GP7, Alco PA, SW9/1200 models all advertised at $29.99. (Please note that I am not endorsing this company, it's just an example of what's out there and their ad was handy.) I'd hardly call that expensive.

BTW RPP is still going strong, and is still the best way as far as I know to do a CF7

 

Okay, I can See detail. I have some older Atlas equipment that makes you beg for Athern Though.
It's all in what excites you about the hobby too. Still its interesting how Aritcles on it in MR and comments here have become few and far between.

RPP makes an SD-38 shell too. That intrigues me.

 

While RPP shells make excellent starting points for many models, many of his products have gotten eclipsed by more finely-detailed models. Their SD9 was upstaged by the P2k version. His SD60(M) has been upstaged by P2k's, and his SD9043MAC has just been one-upped by Kato's. And his GP60 will likely be upstaged by the forthcoming one from P2k later this year. The B23-7 is plagued with dimensional and detail errors, and if another maker produces a high-end model of one, it will likely be forgotten. The list goes on.

While most of the RPP products are nice, many don't quite compare with the level of detail found on many of the newer releases from the bigger makers. And I don't mean add-on details, I mean fundamental things, like crispness of the tooling, and replication of fine details. As an example, compare the door latches, grills, and pilots from, say, an RPP GP35, to a Kato GP35. The Kato's grills are much, much finer, the hood door latches are more defined, with plenty of depth, and the pilot plates are much closer to scale thickness than the RPP's.

Don't get me wrong; I like what RPP does, and many of their shells make excellent starting points. However, many modelers prefer to start with the somewhat higher end models simply because there is less to modify and replace. A good example is an RPP SD45 I've been working on for close to 3(!) years now. When I started, my goal was to create an accurate model of an SP SD45R, to complement one I had already built from a more-or less stock RPP SD45 shell. At first, the work I did was basic - stuff like replacing the cab, nose, and sub-base with Cannon parts (you gotta, especially with the L-window and split doors SP used). But as I went along, I began to notice how a lot of stuff on the RPP shell didn't match the Cannon stuff in fidelity and detail.

So I began replacing stuff I didn't like with more and more Cannon and other aftermarket parts; the dustbin got whacked, along with the inertial intakes. The electrical cabinet access doors got replaced with Cannon. Ditto with the blower duct and long hood end. The radiator grills didn't impress me, so they came off, replaced with some I scratchbashed from photoetched SS screen and styrene. I grew less satisfied with the hood doors, so they came off, replaced with Cannon. I added diamond tread to the walkways with material from S&S Products. I was unhappy with the pilots and stepwells, so those were replaced with ones cut from an Athearn GP38-2. And the replacement process kept snowballing.

So 3 years later, the model is probably only about 25% original RPP; only the walkways and parts of the long hood are still original. Did I have fun doing it? You bet; there's nothing more satisfying than practically building a diesel from scratch. But if I had it to do all over again, I'd probably do it with a Kato SD45, simply because a lot of the parts, like hood doors, radiator grills, and long hood end already meet my standards. Some things will still need to get Cannonized, just for the sake of the SP options, but overall, less work will be needed to get a model just as nice as the rebuilt RPP. I can spend more time doing add-on details (piping, air filters, horns, lights, grabs, hoses, etc.) than replacing major carbody components.

I guess it all depends on what the modeler's standards are. When I first started detailing diesels, I never noticed the little things on the RPP shells. But after Athearn, Atlas, Kato, and P2k started pumping out this current generation of models, many modelers, including myself, saw them as a better starting point for their modeling, and that has left RPP a bit behind.

However, I'm glad there is an RPP, mainly because he does the oddball models no one else wants to do. I was excited when they announced the GP40X, and grabbed four of them. With only a handfull built for four RR's, I don't expect to see any of the bigger companies companies tackle this one. Same goes for the C32-8, SD38, and CF7; they're all oddball models, and RPP is the only game in town. They all make excellent starting points for projects, and are an area of the market that RPP covers well. And they lend themselves nicely to upgrading.

 

Oh, the other one that RPP does that has not yet been surpassed is the SD45-2.

Well yet that is, i'm still surprised nobody has done that loco RTR. Especially as both Athearn & Kato now have rolling chassis that it could be based on.

If RPP were wanting suggestions, what about an SDP45 that you could do in the different versions would be popular IMHO, and unlikely to come as plastic RTR.
Another possibility would be a C636 shell (or just a long hood even) and hi-ad sideframes to fit the Stewart alco century 628/630 base, I could accept a slightly incorrect truck wheelbase with one of these in the same way as the GP40X's...

Martyn

 

RPP is Still the Only game in town for SD90MAC H Engines as well.

Also, one of my big things is the limited run that Atlas KAto and Lifelike do. I WILL NOT be pressured in to buying something by the manufacturers, because they are doing limited runs regardless of the quality of the Detail.

 

First to the naysayers who ask why upgrade an Athearn? Because it is there and you own it.

There are a few of us in this hobby who remember as little as 10 yrs ago that there was not much selection in the plastic ho market. The best things that were out there were the Atlas units with the Kato motors. Those were few and far between and they were rather pricey. You could get a an Athearn at half the price and upgrade it as need be. You could also detail it or buy a RPP shell for it. Anyway for the same price of that Atlas you could have a fully detailed sweet running Athearn hybrid. (I know I own a few Athearns and am slowly upgrading them all. I used to use Jaybee instead of NWSL wheels but now I have changed my ways. NWSL all the way.)

Also some people love to tinker and upgrade their Athearns. I have a friend who upgraded two tunnel motors with good can motors, wheels and Ernst gears. Talk about stump pullers. These two units took a 50 car train up a 2 percent grade on our club layout without missing a beat. I would like to see any stock plastic locomotive fresh out of the box do that.

I admit the quality of today's locomotives are a lot better then they were years ago. I myself have purchased the recent Atlas SD35's GP40's and SD80macs by Kato. But I still get a kick out of my growling rebuilt Athearn units. I also admit I haven't bought a new stock Athearn in a couple of years. It doesn't mean I won't, especially if it will fit my need.

I also want to point out that you don't have to upgrade an Athearn all at once. The newer Athearn motors are pretty decent, but you could swap out the flywheels on them for a cheap fix. IMHO though, my priorities for an Athearn upgrade would be (in order) 1. New wheels. 2. Isolate the motor, and loose the clips and establish better electrical contact. 3. New flywheels. and 4. Put in a new motor.

One thing you all have to remember is that this is a hobby. How you spend your money and have fun is up to you and in a lot of cases your wife. If we were all concerned about saving money, we wouldn't be buying locomotives in the first place.

[ 03 July 2002, 15:49: Message edited by: ajy6b ]

 

One other item. Some of the older Proto-2k are basically Athearns. Some have the same motor or trucks. Some even have the same drive. What you are paying for is an upgraded shell. I would also be wary of the GP18's since they came out with too much weight. This weight tended to crack the gears on the axles. None of these conditions are fatal, but you should know what you are getting into so you can correct the problem.