Some one emailed me a request as to whether it would be appropriate to have others here in the forum help him design a layout. I decided to post my response to him here in public as well as emailing him privately, since from time to time we get the same request and it might be helpful to others who want help. (Below is what I sent to him) People who have asked for help designing a layout from the ground up generally haven't had a great response from others here in the layout design forum. What I would do is this: ask for help each step along the way. For me, the track plan comes second. The first priority is to established how big a layout you want (multi-deck or what) and the benchwork shape (with consideration to a rough mainline - reversing loop, point to point, continuous run, etc) Then after you have the rough shape down and decided on single deck, multi-deck etc, then draw that plan up. Then with that plan establish visual parameters on different areas of your layout. These visual areas are good to define areas for what you want. So one area can be the yard, another area an industry, etc. Notice this is still in the rough. Then once you are satisfied with that, then go micro planning for each area. In fact, I would say build your benchwork and install the track for one area, this will give you an incredible amount of experience for planning the rest of your layout. I have my benchwork up (about 75 percent), backdrop in, and one third of my track in. The first third of my track has given me the experience of what fits and what doesn't. Helping plan for a guys layout takes hours of time and in the end, there is a high probability the guy won't use it anyway. Without a lot of work, it is difficult for me to get inside your head to get your vision of what you want. So it is easier to tweak something than it is to build something from the ground up. Know basically what you want then post a thread with the diagram of the room with all the items we need to know - doors and how they open - window(s) and height - other obstacles (like furnace and water heater and where they are). Include the dimensions (an amazing number don't) and your scale. So for example, you might say something like this: "I am requesting help on design suggestions for benchwork shape. Below I have posted a plan of the room including door, window, and furnace. The room is 18 feet by 23 feet. I am in HO. I am planning a multi-deck affair since I want an empire but I am open to suggestions as to how to do this." If you wrote this I would refer you to John Armstrong's Track Planning For Realistic Operations as he has a section on benchwork shape. For me the benchwork shape is very important, take into consideration the visual impact, the width of isles and separation of decks (if multi-decked). Try creating at least three different plans for the same area - you will discover you get more sophisticated each time. Look in MR and other mags and look for a basic shape you like and you feel will work in your area.
I bet it took me hundreds of hours to design my layout, and now I've pretty much thrown away the plan and am going as is. And still making error. Your comments are good. Design the benchwork allowing room to work and walk, find where turns will fit if you are doing a run around plan, and then start fitting in the elements that you want. Or if you really want it to turn out, you have to read Armstong's book.
Rick, Your post could not have turned up at a better time. I am salivating at the prospect of completing a garage remodel which will give me an exclusive model rr spot. I have a problem that I would like to see some discussion on and I will make a separate post on that. Thanks and regards, Clif Linton
Hi Rick, I followed your advice and went out and bought the framing stuff and the foam for the roadbed. This weekend I'll put the framework together, but it will still be on the floor, because the wall brackets have not been mounted to the wall yet. In the meantime the foam is sitting on two sawhorses - nothing like laying out the track right there and then! The only drawback to this approach is getting feedback on the plan. No drawing = no file to upload for ideas. Any ideas about that? William
Draw it on the foam, stand the foam up, take a photo and post the photo here. If a digital camera is not handy, take a regular photo and scann it when its developed in an hour.
I spent three hours planning one guys layout, only to be told after I was done that he was no longer interested in N scale. Another layout I worked on for many hours and faxed it off to Texas, only to be told he didn't want a large layout after all, but a smaller one. Most guys start out like me, kicking tires, then eventually "settle." I then started assigning an hour to two hours of home work to get rid of the tire kickers, so far no one apparently who has requested my help was willing to put in one or two hours of homework in prep for their layout. No one would get back to me, which is okay since they weren't ready I guess.
Rick, i agree that if you want the help,you have to put in the time.I spent alot of time over measurements,ideas givens and druthers with a pile of emails back and forth with harron .While my plan is still not complete, it has all the base fundamentals in place and has only 1 section left to be filled in.The layout is half built and will hopefully be operational by next may.Finished? not even close,but 1 year from inception to operation is ,based on my schedule pretty good.Many have helped with my design and have been instrumental in keeping me motivated (you among them).Some plans will go faster and be operational much quicker,but being in a hurry will only provide a poor end product.Now , about that center section rick, You got a couple hours ,i have this idea.............................
Hey Rick....if you're just itching for some track planning you can help me out with mine. My mainline is pretty much set and the hidden staging is pretty much set, but I'm still not 100% happy with my industry areas. I have another thread on this but for convenience I'll post the track plan below. If you (or anyone else) has any ideas on what I can do with the industry areas I'm open for suggestions. I just can't seem to pinpoint exactly what I want on it. Track Plan Track Plan With Scenery Ideas Heck, maybe it's fine the way it is....it just seems like the industry areas could be better to me. On a side note, I may have to lose the connection to the staging yard with the branch line and the interchange line due to elevation issues. I originally drew them just disappearing into a tunnel and going nowhere and I may have to go back to that.
Hi, I totally agree with what’s been said, designing a layout can take hours of work and even then, many alterations will take place long before the final track plan is ready to be put to use. I myself have drawn and re-drawn plans many times to get just the right plan I was looking for. I look at the plan many times, and then I try and imagine what the scenery would look like when its finished. Sometimes even at this stage, I alter it and start again with my thoughts. Paul
Hoss, I think you're at a stage where you have to ask yourself what you want. I discovered what I thought I wanted and what I laid track for were two different things. I thought I wanted heavy industry, and I ended up laying track for passenger and light industry. For N scale your layout is a good size, but its still at the size you have to really focus. So the big question is - do you want a layout dedicated to running, or do you want a switching layout? Of course, on some layout sizes you can have both, but in a space your size, you're better off getting down to business and deciding. Now if this were my layout, I would do away with staging on the main deck and instead have staging on another deck underneath. With the amount of space on your main deck, what you have for what you want is at a premium, why waste it on staging, when you have this wonderful space underneath that could give you more staging than what you have proposed now. When I look at your layout, I see a layout primarily dedicated to running, which is great if that is what you want. You have switching on your upper part of the L with very little switching on the vertical part of the L. Again, there is nothing wrong with this if that is what you want. If this were my layout, first I would get rid of all the brown track - that goes underneath. Then I would divide it into visual areas that I think the eyes would naturally gravitate too. So I think you have three main visual areas. The area that has switching right now, the corner where the L meets. And the bottom vertical of the L. The two areas of the L are natural switching areas. The corner is where you could have some fun (remember, if you get rid of all the brown track you will have more room here). Maybe a small servicing area. Of if it were me, a passenger terminal, with some structures hinting about the town there. Again to make your remaining two visual areas different - and make the layout seem larger - I would have one area fairly flat but more structures and the other one, much more mountainous with the industry in the mountains - this can be logging, coal, a quarry, whatever. I would put an oval helix under the horizontal arm of the L (under the present switching area). You will need 32 feet of track to get an 8 inch separation, or 40 feet of track for a ten inch separation (using a 2 percent grade), I would opt for the 10 inches. You might even semi-scenic the staging area; the quickest and easiest would be to have a desert scene with sand as your main visual impact. For the staging area, I would keep it mostly to the front (as you bend down and look in), with maybe a slight tiered look so you can see the trains behind each other (this was in an MR a few years ago). But now, when I give you all this advise I am really building my layout, not yours. If you are happy with what you have, stick with it. It looks good to me. When I built the layout, I would make the main deck quite high so that your staging underneath is easily visually accessible. I am 5 foot 10 inches, so I would have the main deck at somewhere around 55 inches high, and the lower deck at around 47 inches; this way your not ducking or stooping down (unless you are really tall, then just raise the height some more). N scale trains look really great at 50 inches or higher.
Wow...that's quite a response. I'm going to quickly respond because I'm ready to go home for the day. I'll comment more later. Basically, what I want is to have the ability to have continuous running but enough switching to keep me busy and prevent me from getting bored with it. However, I DON'T want heavy industry. I've always lived in kind of a rural area and that is the kind of area I want to model. I've been messing around with the track plan a little bit today in Paint. You can go HERE and see the full size version of what I've done or look at the smaller picture below. Image removed. Cleaned house in photo album. As you can see, I made some major modifications to the industry area on the upper leg. I also added a small yard on the lower leg and intend to add some industry in that area too as soon as I figure out what I want to do there. I have given and am still giving some serious thought to having the staging underneath. The main reason for my hesitance is just that I haven't been able to figure out a good way to incorporate a helix into the layout. Going UP I can do....going down is a little more complicated. I'm still working on it though. On deck height, I'm 6'-0" and the lowest part of the deck is 52-1/4". With the current track plan it rises to about 55-1/4". That seems to be a good height for me. Well...I'm gonna play around with this a bit tonight in RTS and see what else I come up with. I'm ready to get out of here now. Thanks for the help. [ 12. December 2003, 17:58: Message edited by: Hoss ]
I'm bouncing this topic to front of the line so that if there are any new folk here that want help they will see this. I have found it fun to go back and read old threads and then see what people have come up with; I'm thinking of Hoss here, but others as well.
