NYC H7/H10 Erection or Clearance Diagrams

WM183 Sep 14, 2018

  1. WM183

    WM183 TrainBoard Member

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    Hi hi all!

    My next Mikado project (the current one is nearly done - no worries, photos soon!) will be a New York Central H7, I think, or perhaps an H10. My copy of New York Central Later Power (1915-1960) has diagrams for an H9 and an H10, but they are both only HO scale drawings, not the excellent dimensional drawings found elsewhere throughout the book. Does anyone have any idea where good workable drawings of these 2 mikado classes - particularly the H7, as I can work from the H10 drawing if needed - might be found? This book has plenty of drawing for switchers and mohawks (L1, L2, and L4!) but is sadly lacking in Mikado and Pacific drawings. I am in dire need of a good one for a K11 pacific too.

    I gotta say, the NYC Historical Society doesn't put out 1/10 the wonderful books and research materials that the C&O Historical Society does =(
     
  2. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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  3. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    The H-9 was unique to the P&LE. It rarely operated anywhere else on the NYCS. It is a USRA heavy, which Kato issued. If you are going to model it as it looked after the early 1920s, you would have to put an H-8 tender behind it and move the air pumps to the pilot deck (and put shielding over them). The LL Berkshire tender is a good place to start for the H-8 tender.

    P&LE did equip two or three H-9s with steam lines and signalling devices, supposedly so that they could pull crew shuttles, but I would not be surprised if they did not work more than one passenger train when a Ten Wheeler, Pacific or Hudson was not available. The five H-10s that P&LE received used from the NYC in the late 1940s or very early 1950s had vestibule cabs and had been equipped by NYC with steam lines and signalling devices, as well. The steam lines were usable on either three or four of them by the time that P&LE got them.

    Jack Polaritz published a very good book on P&LE Mikados. P&LE did have some H-10s of its own, in addition to the five that it got used from NYC.
     
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  4. WM183

    WM183 TrainBoard Member

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    I did NOT know about the brass H10! I will keep my eyes open on the evilbay for one; Spookshow says it's quite a good runner!

    Thank you for the information about the book on P&LE's Mikados. I knew about the H6/H9 allocation, but I wasn't aware that P&LE had H10s. Any book covering Mikados in general and any belonging to the NYCS in particular is something I want!

    I wish someone (Kato!) would do the USRA light Mike - they would, in theory, only need to change a few bits.
     
  5. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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  6. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    Model Power did a USRA light Mikado. It runs well. Its one weakness is that the tender is only half wheels live, even the newest MRC version. As MRC finally did go to an all wheels live tender for the Eight Wheeler and Mogul, I would expect that it will go to one for subsequent runs of the USRA light Mikado and Pacific. In the meantime, if you get hold of one, substitute either the Kato USRA standard or Bachmann SPECTRUM USRA standard tender for the stock tender. Some have swapped out the MP trucks for Kato caboose trucks or tender trucks, as well, but that requires a little more soldering and some other work. Finally, the MP USRA light Mikado and Pacific have cast-on details. I do not see MRC's changing that. Bachpersonn has announced or might even have issued USRA light Mikados and Pacifics in HO; perhaps they will appear in N at some point.

    As I run B&O, USRA light Mikados and Pacifics are useful to me. B&O ran Q-3s almost everywhere on the railroad. The P-5s ran mostly in Ohio and on the old BR&P. There was a class of USRA light Pacific copies on the B&O, class P-6, that had Vanderbilt tenders. You did see those in more places on the railroad than you saw the P-5s. The first USRA locomotive, a light Mikado built for the B&O does exist. It is at the B&O museum on static display. I do not know if it could be made to run, again. B&O had one hundred or so USRA light 2-8-2s.

    The P&LE's history with Mikados is a case of trial and error. Up until just before the First World War, its main freight power was the 2-8-0. That was proving inadequate as freight trains became longer. P&LE had a Mikado designed, class H-8. They were failures. P&LE was convinced that it could fix the problem. It even went as far as to rent the Penn's test track and technicians to see what could be done. At that point, the First World War and the USRA happened. P&LE/P-Mickey were assigned thirty of what their men called the "Government engines", the USRA heavy Mikado, class H-9. They were successful. After the USRA returned the railroads to their owners, P&LE took the larger tenders from the underachieving H-8s, put them behind the H-9s and moved the air pumps to the pilot deck. Due to the H-8 fiasco, 230 Park Avenue would not let P&LE design any more power for itself. It took over all power design and acquisition after that.

    Parent NYC subsequently caused the design of the H-10 for its own lines. It assigned them to the P&LE as well. They proved even better than the H-9s, which were very good. Finally, there was the assignment of five used H-10s from NYCS to P&LE in the very late 1940s/very early 1950s.

    On the rest of the NYCS, the H-10s proved to be versatile: they could do switching, freight work and even pinch hit for Pacifics and Hudsons, when needed.

    P&LE relegated the H-8s to switching duty. It assigned several to subsidiaries. It sold several to industrial concerns. It sold a few more to Mexico.
     
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  7. WM183

    WM183 TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Brokemoto,

    I knew about the MP locos, but never knew how well they ran. I will look for one at a decent price and grab it. Most of my stuff has to come from ebay, and I can find Kato Mikes for 30-40 euros if I am patient (I have 3 so far!) but those MP ones seem to sell consistently for 125-150 euro. I would LOVE Bachmann to do a Light Pacific and Mike... and dare I hope, a heavy pacific someday to haul some Erie varnish!

    The Mikado is definitely my favorite loco, in all of their guises and flavors =D H7/10, K2/3, Qs, NKP's fleet...
     
  8. brokemoto

    brokemoto TrainBoard Member

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    .............and WM never had any 2-8-2s. Until the arrival of the 4-8-4s and 4-6-6-4s, the 2-8-0 was WM's main freight power. If WM ever equipped
    its 4-8-4s with steam lines and signalling devices, I am not aware of it. It had more than enough Pacifics to cover its passenger trains. The 4-8-4 s could not have gotten into Hillen St. in Baltimore, anyhow; they were too heavy for the tracks and they burned coal.

    I find it curious that the MPs go for more than do the Katos. The Katos are far better power. If you get hold of an MP, you must get hold of a B-mann SPECTRUM or Kato USRA standard tender. The difference is mark├ęd.
     
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  9. WM183

    WM183 TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Brokemoto,

    WMs lack of 2-8-2s (and other easy to model steam power) is actually a big part of why I've switched to roads further north with more accessible steam. WM's predominant 2-8-0s, H8 and H9, are nothing at all close to Bachmann's wonderful little 2-8-0s, whereas the Bachmann engine (As well as the Kato heavy mike!) are perfect for the Erie. C&O's Mikes can be made from Kato's loco, and 2-6-6-2s, 0-8-0s, 2-8-4,s and 4-8-2s are all made in N. NYC has the Model Power Mikado (evidently - TY for the tip, and I do have plenty of spare Kato and Bachmann USRA tenders!), the 0-8-0, and evidently the brass H10 as available versions. I guess the old Con-Cor Hudson, while rare, is also a nice loco.

    I jumped into modeling with both feet, and after a bit, determined my initial choice (as well as my user ID!) wasn't the best one for me. C'est la vie, I suppose. I only have a pair of WM diesels and about a dozen freight cars, so I might sell or trade them for something further north. Erie and NYC are closer to home for me anyway, being from Ashtabula, Ohio, an NYC town if there ever was one (And Nickel Plate, PRR, and AC&Y, though none to the extent of NYC) and growing up fishing and camping all around NW Pennsylvania and western New York.

    You guys have been an amazing source of information and inspiration. Thank you all much!

    Amanda
     
  10. WM183

    WM183 TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Hardcoaler!

    I have downloaded most of the articles from the NYCTHS archive. They also have articles on the H7, K11, and the "Late Mohawks" (I wish they had one for the L2s... bah) too. Thanks much!
     

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