Andrew, I probably did not communicate this very well. The upper portion of the sketch will be against the wall. The entire portion that extends down on the right, will be in the middle of the room(the room is about 25' x 17'. I can't have it all though.) There is an informal division to the room, and this peninsula will become part of that division. So, access will be available at all times in the upper right. I agree on the building part of the eventual empire. I was thinking that the loop on the left would be the left end of my eventual empire(though I would imagine my skills will be honed by building this 1st layout, and that loop eventually rebuilt anyway). As for the spurs that i mentioned, thats where my brain locks up. I see fantastic plans and layouts in MRR. But, when it comes to putting them down on paper, I'm lost. I was thinking of a coal tipple on the one spur near C-9. And the more I look at it, I think that the lap-passing siding should be shifted around to the right. Let me throw a nother sketch together with some spurs on it, and a few of the other details that I was considering. Could you elaborate on the "track connecting me with the rest ofd the world"? I';m not real sure I understand. Do yo mean another railline(for instance B & O) and tie it into a live interchange? I like your idea of moving the tunnel opening from near A-8 to A-2, to prevent trains running throughthe same scenes multiple times. I think I could keep the elevation high there along the back, which would allow me to build some additional staging under the mainline, no? I was thinking about a detail in J Armstrong's track planning book, where he has a reverse loop, with hidden track which allows a train to pull in past a set of points then back through the return loop(hidden track) and then re-appear from the same tunnel portal in which it entered. Thanks for the quick input. I will get to work tonight on another sketch.
Rather than think about how the track will work, I would suggest that you focus on the industries you would like to model, and then figure out how they could be part of your layout. The track work might suggest itself from there. The "outside connection" would be staging, or some other connection where trains come from. The only reason I said this was because in your initial sketch, there is nowhere to "hide" other trains. Almost all the track is visible, with the exception of the tunnel. If you are going to have interechange, you will need some hidden spot to bring trains in from, do the interchange, and then take the outbound cars "off" the layout. If you go for staging under the main along the back, just make sure you can get to it in the event of a derailment, etc! About the "round the walls" approach - you don't have to be against walls for this idea to work. In fact, it can sometimes be more interesting, as you can have an operator in the "pit" (inside the loop) and others outside. Art Curren did some really neat stuff with "double-sided" buildings as a scenic divider on a penninsula. Could also work where part of a loop is free standing in a room. Andrew
Jeff, That looks like a pretty interesting design which enables continuous running. Do you intend on running trains around the loop or are you interested in switching as well. Continuous running soon becomes monotonous hence my layout expansion to enable more industries. You may also want to consider a through yard to enable storage of trains on the layout? As Hoss said be careful with the S curves althoughin my opinion they add interest to the layout. I have 3 or 4 S curves on my layout and they make fantastic scene and are great photo shots.
Paul, Actually I believe I am more interested in switching, but still want to be able to have another train runnning in a continuous loop. I just threw this sketch up without spurs or industries show to start getting some input. I am going to take this sketch and add some things/lose some things/modify some things , using the input I've gotten on this post, tonight, and try to get it posted before bed(probably tomorrow). I also, have a couple ideas I got from the book"track planning for realistic operation" by J Armstrong. I think I can incorporate a reverted loop, which is described in the book, in the mountain area on the left of my sketch. Thanks for the input.
I'd further look at broadening out the curves. I can see where you've used wider curves where you can see, but the tighter curves will give you more headaches, as this is where the strain will be the greatest for the trains and longer consists. I'm in the same boat you are, but not quite as far along in actually getting it done. I'll have a 14' X 9' room I'll be able to dedicate to trains once I finish the basement. I have to make allowances to get into the closet, but that's all. I tried to design a layout along one side of the room, but now I'm looing at an around-the-room layout. I was creating a spaghteei bowl, and it was turning into a real mess. Now I've simplified it and smoothed out the curves. 26" mainline curves, and 22" "local" curves, with easements on all curves. I've stuffed a 12' storage siding under the mountain along one edge of the layout, and I have another long siding along the top of the mountain. I've got a mainline run, as well as a local running track, both of which are continuous running, plus a switchyard that is mixed in some with the local line. Some day I'll post the drawing here for review, but I'm still not satisfied with it. My 4th MAJOR revision with numerous minor changes on each version. Make your changes now on paper, as it's much easier to do before you build it, and build it to accomodate easy changes down the road, because I can guarantee you WILL make some changes after it's built. Mark in Utah
Well, I finally got some mods done on my sketch and got it posted. I didn't get nearly as much done as I would liked, but here it is. Notice I added 6" to the right side(since there will be access on this side I didn't think I would cause an access problem) which allows a 24" and 21" curve on the double loop/passing siding. Like I said before the spur at C-9 will be a coal tipple(mine over the hill). the spur near B-4/5 is a coal dealer. And the spurs in the right hand loop were where I had in mind to put a large brewery. I also put the line inside a tunnel all the way to A-2(although I forgot to draw in the tunnel portal there) I also added a sketch of a reverted loop idea I got out of "Track Planning For Realistic Operation", which I thought I could use on the left end of the line. This would extend the mainline (heading left) by moving the tunnel portal around the curve some distance. And give me some hidden staging. I will say this right off. I am not good at laying out these spurs and would really appreciate any help you may give me. Once again please don't be shy about any criticism, I have no emotional attatchment to these sketches and real thick skin. Thanks in advance for all your help.
Jeff, At one point in your posts, you mention that you are interested in switching. With the new sketch you have posted, I only count three (possibly four) destinations for switching. I have a suggestion that you can take or leave as you see fit (my skin is pretty thick, and besides - it's your layout ). Since your penninsula (A1 through H4) is accessible on both sides, why don't you redo the whole area as an industrial district. I saw a great article by Art Curren in the Jan 1995 (I believe) about "double sided" buildings that serve as a scenery block instead of mountains or a slab of foam. It is designed for your layout! You would have to eliminate the track that crosses the middle of the penninsula. Instead, you'd have a bunch of taller industries down the middle, with different businesses represented on either side. You can still retain at least one loop around the outside, but maybe put it on another level. That would allow you to have two "worlds" represented on your layout - the gritty industrial district on the penninsula, and the rural/mining area against the wall to the left. I like the staging idea under the part along the wall - just make sure it is accessible for possible derailments, etc. Send me an email if you'd like more info on that article. Just click on "email" at the top of my post. Andrew [ 23. February 2004, 17:35: Message edited by: MasonJar ]
Andrew, I really like your idea. Urban/industrial switching is what I would be interested in(I just can't seem to put it down on paper). Yesterday I began work on yet another sketch,trying to put together some sort of a switching district in the center/between the loops. I was looking at different layouts/plans in mags, website,and books, but was not havingmuch luck shoe horning them into my midsection. I will look that Jan 1995 article up, as it sounds great to me. Another thing, in thesketch I started yesterday, I did away with the under-layout staging that I show in the small side sketch that I posted on friday. I re-drew it to show the mainline which will exit the tunnel around A-2, and a parallel track, running down grade and turning under the penninsula which would serve as staging for the reverted loop. I believe it will give greater access to staging in case of derailment or other need for access as you mentioned. When I get a look at the article you mentioned and get something roughed out I will post it for you to take a look. Thanks again for your help.
Jeff, No problem on the help - this is lots of fun! If it turns out that I have the wrong date on the article (I am sure it is by Art Curren), send me an email or some sort of message, as I have a copy of the issue in question. Andrew
CORRECTION - For anyone that is interested, the article by Art Curren is actually January 1999. Sorry for any confusion. Andrew
Well, I finally got a new sketch drawn and up on Railimages. This is for the right hand leg of the layout. It is a penninsula that is accessable from both sides(but not the top). Many thanks go out to Andrew(Masonjar). Without the material you sent me, I would still be floundering. Thank you very much. My idea here is based on information Masonjar provided me, for using relatively tall buildings to act as a veiw block across a penninsula. My buildings are colored in red, and are just rough sketched right now. I will do some research in the walthers catalog to determine exactly what is available to fill my needs for view block buildings. On the left of the Penn., is a harbor area(the dock with a spur I got from the Roque Bluffs articles in the recent MR). The area at 3-B is a coal dealer kit I had started a couple years ago. D-4 is a walthers LCL kit. I intend to have the top tracks exiting a tunnel and have a higher elevation than the tracks heading back to the left. At D-2 there will be a 60 degree crossing, and I will put some of this track into the paving material. I will do likewise in the dock area. I would like to incorporate a brewery in the area of G/H-2/3, and could see adding more buildings in this area. The rest could be small industries and possibly some rough urban apartment buildings. The period I am modeling will be between 1930's-1950's(I've not decided exactly yet, but will try to maintain no more than a 5 year period). I think I could add some industries on the left shore of the river also. I am sure that I need to make some additional mods to this plan, and any input you guys could through my way, would be greatly appreciated(and don't worry about hurting my feelings, I've got thick skin). One thing I just noticed is that I may want to straighten out the lower of the two bridges, and make it some sort of draw or swing bridge, to allow boat traffic up the river, and then make my curve on the opposite shore. Thanks in advance for any critique you may throw my way. And once again, Thanks Andrew for your help.
Jeff, I think that looks great (no bias of course )! I really like that you will be able to operate from two sides here, and that you have gotten a good draft of the industrial switching area you said you wanted. Is the coal dealer O.L. King and Sons? I picked up a painted but unassembled kit the other day from my local shop's consignment section. Looks really nice. I am going to use fine black aquarium gravel for the coal. It is $1 for about 2 pounds at the dollar shop. Anyway, I am glad to be able to help...! I am also looking forward to some feedback. Andrew EDIT - After looking again, I notice that the only run around you have is the "bottom" of the loop, and that it is necessary to go through the industry at E-1/F-1. What is that industry, and is it advisable to use it in that way? And one more - You have some empty space in the bottom left - you could run another building diagonally from G-4 to H-3 to block the view through to the other side. [ 29. March 2004, 19:14: Message edited by: MasonJar ]
Andrew, The part at the lower left that is still open, I was thinking of putting in a multi building brewery complex here(incorporating it with the building shown at H-2). I know that a brewery generate an awful lot of traffic(Grain, hops, glass-in,bottled beer,broken glass,waste-out, and maybe i'm missing some)There is also some room at F/G-4 still open. I'm not sure about that area yet. As to an additional runaround, what do you think. I could put in one at F/G-4 or A-1/2. I'm not sure, but can certainly see the benefit. The "industry" at 1-E/F I had in mind was some sort of a passenger station(though that really may not be appropriate here. Yes, the coal dealer is the O L King from Walthers. This is just a rough sketch(in fact it is very close to the building layout from the article) and I'm sure there will be modifications once I start putting it together. But, for the 1st time in about 200 sketches I am relatively happy with a plan. Thanks again, and as i get things started, I will continue to post updates.
