2 more cents... [FONT=""Trebuchet MS""]While you finalize the mechanics of the thing, I have a thought about the key. :lightbulb: If you make it longer you could easily incorporate a uncoupling pick on the other end. Less tools to keep track of is always a bonus.:thumbs_up: [/FONT]
John, I like that idea! I am in the process of selecting a vendor to manufacture these for me. Rix makes one the might be just the ticket. Perhaps they could incorporate their "Pik" design with my "Key" and make exactly what you describe. This is the state of the design for now. Thanks for the input! I really appreciate helpful coments like yours. Jerry
Jerry Is it your intent to light the cube colors or would they be painted? I guess you solved the proximity issue? I really like the design, it will be interesting to see what the cost will be to create the mold and mechanics.
Owen, The proximity issue disappeared when I compared the AMRA standards against the dimensions on the cross section. I'm sure glad you asked though that issue could have been a real Whoops! I think that the "Cube" colors will be made in the form of some red and green reflective tape which will be applied at the time the switch machine is installed. The timing of installation is important because the colors of the lens will have to be reversed depending on which side of the turnout it is installed on. The mechanical details are all worked out. The machine consists of four small plastic parts: A stem which is actuated by the key to move the switch points, A connecting rod running between the stem and the switch rod, A bottom housing for the connecting rod and stem, A top housing. Using a process known as [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Stereo lithography (SLA) the first complete turnout model would cost about the same as a good Kato Locomotive. I still have to work out the fabrication details with the manufacturer. I'm hoping to be able to design a sprue that will allow the parts of up to 12 complete machines, two keys and some spare connecting rods to be produced in one shot.[/FONT] Jerry
Owen, Please excuse my ignorance. What is the knob shown to be in the center of the tracks on this photo of a kato turnout? Is there something mounted below it? Jerry
GM, I'm presuming the stand has to be mounted quite solidly. I used cork roadbed over one-inch thick foam board. It was a bear in some places to mount Caboose Hobbies' ground throws solidly. I ended up using HO track spikes, driven at angles, and lots of white glue to form an encasement around the base. It works fairly well, but I still break one loose every so often. How would these mount in cork and foamboard construction? In a few high locations, I've mounted the throws about a foot away, i.e., closer to the edge, so that people shorter than I can reach them. I cut a trough in the foam and run piano wire in it. It works fine. Would I be able to do this with your turnouts? I'm not sure I'd bother, because it's pretty easy to hide an oversize switch machine a foot away from the turnout! In these situations, could your switch machine design act as a relay, not from a powered switch motor, but perhaps from a Caboose Hobbies throw or even a miniature SPST? Just some thoughts.
For a ground throw this concept has great merit.... But in operating many HO and some N railroads I have found that ground throws are less than desireable because turnouts are not always located in places that are conveniently accessed by hands and arms.... Trees, telephone poles, buildings, overhead decks, and rolling stock on adjacent tracks get in the way. As a layout owner I'd prefer that the operators have to reach into the scene as little as possible to save wear and tear on the layout and equipment, even though having turnout controls on the fascia is a little distracting and non prototypical (calling attention to the fact that most real railroads not having facsias and operator aisles!). Having ground throw mechanisms on top of the sub base is somewhat convenient for installation, but servicing/repairing/replacing it after scenery is in place may be a problem. With undertable throws all you have to worry about is the wire slot or crank wire tube being clear on top of the railroad when something fails. I do like the concept of a "switch key" to get around the problem of oversized operating switch stands. Even the HO Caboose Industries ground thows, as oversized as they are, are a pain to use (sometimes literally) as you try to get a grasp on the lever to move it... and the N Scale ones are worse but still grossly oversized. Charlie Vlk
Good Morning Pete, Look back to the top of this thread where I posted a rendering of my original concept. Note that the stem (The round thing just under the lamp stand is substantially longer than in the latest rendering. Originally I planed on installing the device by drilling two holes through the plywood sub roadbed. Then because I am going to have a friend route the sub roadbed using his 5 axis CNC router, I changed my mind and decided to just set the device in a shallow mortise. that will secure the device from horizontal movement. I think it could be done the same way with foam but have never used the stuff. Remote location is possible. all that would be requited is the fabrication of a long connector wire and chase. One of the reasons I am pursuing this is to avoid electricity. I plan on installing 96 turnouts and feel that the cost might put the kiss of doom on the layout. Thanks for joining in the discussion Pete. I appreciate the thoughtfull comments. Jerry
Good morning Charlie, You have managed to gather all of my concerns into one post. It's as if you were looking over my shoulder while this thing was gelling in my mind. I copied your entire post here because I think your comments speak to very important points. I have worked hard to come up with a design that minimizes the need for controls mounted on the fascia board. Even the levers used to operate the turnouts in the far reaches of the staging area can be concealed from observers by closing the access hatch. The matter of having people reach into the scene is always present. Careful design might be able to prevent some accidents but I suspect there will always some. Please see my response to Pete Nolan above regarding my thoughts on installation from the top or bottom. The method is still being debated. I know that the top is the easiest and more precise method for installation, but as you say, maintenance may prove to be very disappointing. This one is the toughie! This all started when I realized that the Caboose Ground throws were as large as they are. I am trying to come up with a model that is void of distracting objects both on the table surface and on the fascia. I have even designed some little doors to hide the Digitrax Connectors behind so they will not be visible when not being used. I really hate to admit it but maybe I will have to install tortoise machines everywhere. Thanks for your comments. Thy really hit on the essence of the matter. Jerry
:embarassed: Thanks, GM. Sometimes I don't have time to read and assimilate a thread as technical as this one as thoroughly as I should. By "relay" I meant mechanical relay, not electrical relay. Could one switch stand near the edge of a layout operate another stand at the switch? My layout has two and three decks, one above the other. The upper decks do not have a fascia, as the outer edge is tapered to a point. I did this to allow light from the room to get deeper into the lower decks. In my design, I tried to keep every switch stand accessible. There are still half a dozen that are hard to reach on the top decks. I'll probably use powered switch motors there, but would like to avoid it. I've found that manual switches cut operating incidents by about 95%, as the crew has to pay attention. My point was that not everyone uses wood, and that mounting mechanical machines in soft materials deserves a look. More modelers are going to foam board. If I had to do it over again, BTW, I'd use plywood! :embarassed:
Pete, I have a similar problem with several turnouts on the incoming staging ladder. My solution is to use some levers to actuate the points from a distance of 4 to 6 feet away. I'm on the last mile of the quest for some affordable turnout controls. In my quest, I have found that the road to success is never straight and it's often bumpy, but; I think the journey will be worth it. The latest twist is a complete redesign. In the rendering below, you will probably recognize the Cube. That and the key are all that remain of the original design. I have all of the tooling to manufacture a wooden master that can be used to cast these things from a resin. Once the weather warms up to over 40F I'll fire up the lathe and see what happens. If we can get some resin castings to stick to the switch ties, then it will not matter what the sub roadbed is made from! Jerry
