Keep coming back to basic layout, will I be sorry ?

Ok guys dont beat up on me too hard for being indecisive. I'm stuck in First gear of layout building. Torn between coulda and woulda.


One of the great things about the internet is the great exchange of ideas. One of the frustrations of not having a hard fast design on what you want is reading the 100's of ideas and not knowing whats right for you. My point is this. I'm trying to build a shelf layout. The shelf and basic benchwork is built. 10' x 10' L 24" wide with dogbones for turnarounds on each end. I've posted questions for feedback on layout ideas and almost unanimously they feedback is to go with the Anthracite Creek Design

http://www.saycheesephoto.com/model_trains/anthraciteCreek.jpg


I keep coming back to basically two large ovals, one within the other, probably on different levles with a crossover between the two, some industrial sidings a passing siding, and a yard. I like the two ovals because it gives me the most mainline length withing the confines of a shelf layout, and two allow for two continous runs.

Seeing Loco1999's layout shows me simple can be good, real good.

http://www.saycheesephoto.com/model_trains/basicloop.jpg


The pros: are I want to come home from work, have my working on the Railroad be relaxing not frustrating. Trying to figure out the BEST layout is driving me nuts. I don't expect to be using a fastclock, manifest cards etc. I want to runs trains, not a railroad.

The Cons: Will I get bored with the basic simple design.

I see some nice simple layouts while surfing the boards, but then I see some that look like they will get real boring real fast.

I guess I think there is something to be said for our tinplate friends, it doesn't have to be realistic, just fun.

I'm open to any an all feedback. Thanks, Dave

 

I don't see any problem with going with the plan you prefer. Even if you want to keep operation rather simple for now, perhaps you can add enough passing sidings, yard track and industrial spurs to your twin ovals to make things interesting in the future. For the time being, you don't have to use all the extra trackage, do you?

My opinion only...

 

First, of all, don't get in over your head. What I mean by this is: This is your first layout, don't go out to create the greatest, most spectacular layout in the world. By all means, it is a great thing to have the motivation to do that, but a good layout is some thing takes time.

I suggest you should draw up a plan kind of an "in-between" of the Anthracite Creek and the simple oval.

You'll want to see trains run, but you don't want it too complicated and run into numerous problems.

 

Start simple. then add, either on the same board or on additions thereto. Know your wiring do's and don'ts. Get to know how to make raised roadbeds. Get to know scenery techniques that work best for you on probably 1/4 area of your board on areas that you are reasonably sure will not be changed. It will avoid a lot of ripping up if you decide what you have done doesn't work for you. I am speaking from experience. VERY important- It is strongly suggested you use flex track, if you can cut it properly, rather than hundreds of pieces of 6"-1" track sections- each on will need rail joiners. These joiners will eventually work themselves loose, causing power losses to particular areas of track.

 

OK, now just a 'durn minute' here.

If you look CAREFULLY at the Anthracite Creek, you'll see that the lower level is almost a loop to loop.

There's alreadya return loop built into the LH side, as well as the 'near loop' under the yard on the RH extension.

If you build it cookie-cutter, you could design the extension-table loop to be converted into a grade by jacking up the loop roadbed later.

Until that point, you have a relatively-simple loop-to-loop test layout.

Think about it. Don't bite off more than you can chew, but look hard at the Anthracite Creek because I think it has potential to be not only an exceptional 'down the road' layout, but can be built first as a very simple loop-to-loop on the lower levels just to get started and get running.

My layout was exceptionally complicated to build - took 18 months to get the main line built. But I had my lower-level 'loop' (now the staging yard) that let me get something moving the first month - which kept me from going stark raving nuts.

 

I've found the WORST thing I've done is keep thinking about what I want to do. I forget who told me this, but it was the best advice I've gotten - "LAY SOME TRACK" You can always fix/modify/re-work it later!

Is this your first layout?

 

Is this your first layout?:

Yes my first real layout. 25+ years ago in my teens I had the usual HO Tyco 4x8 Grass matt layout. It never ran right. This time I'm "N" scale using Unitrack that has been very reliable.
I'm also using Woodland Design Risers so the grades haven't been a problem. Thanks for the replies Dave

 

I think even the most respected track planers go back and change their own layouts as intrests change.Don't worry about building the perfect layout.
I think (as others have mentioned) you should go with something in between the 2 designs you have,and don't worry about making changes in the future,because you will change things.

 

I am still going round and round on what I call dream layout #1.......or maybe we just call it the intermediate layout. My main problem is deciding how much space to reallocate in the woodworking shop. As I throw out junk and relocate other stuff, the space available keeps expanding.
To deal with the primal urge to run trains, I bought a three foot wide door and built a simple track plan based on a double track oval with sidings. As simple as it is, I have fairly large radius curves which were laid out using easments. Even long cars look good going into a turn. Due to the fact I had been away from the hobby for 30 years, the practice laying track and the eventual sceniking is invaluable. In the meantime I can plan the dream layout at my leasure. No big rush.......no big mistakes! I would advise starting with something small. I have seen some beautiful layouts that were only about 2 1/2 feet by 4 feet. It just has to be big enough to entertain the cat

Len

 

Cruikshank:

I would use the basic plan that you started with. You can always add interesting spurs and sidings to your original layout.


There is
"no perfect layout".

I've been in model railroading for 50+ years in all the major scales.

AS I got older, I decided that I wanted a smaller layout which I have now.

I had very large O scale and HO scale layouts in my younger days.

Now, I'm happy with a 4x11' multi-level layout.

Is it ideal? For me it is. Others might take a different point of view.

Go with what's good for you and not what other's think might be good for you.

 

Why not stick to a basic un-sceniced layout for a while.

I remember reading a layout design thread on one of these forums and one of the old hands, I think it was brakie, came on said "I just lay the track till it works I never draw the track plan.

I find that layout designing on paper is often misleading. You have to lay out the track and look at some train cars in relation to it to get an idea of what it will really look like and do. Just play with your track and run your trains till it feels right.

 

Geeky is right...what is on paper and what you come out with are two totally different things (I speak from experience). Plus, this being my first layout in 20+ years, I'm in the same boat as you and feel your frustration(s).

My is make a running track (or maybe even a parallel line) with a siding or two, and then maybe a small staging yard/depot/whatever - for the inner line. Build the outer loop first, then the inner loop with open turnouts (this will get some trains moving and allow for some future flexability and creativity). The start on the inner line and scenicing, buildings, and the link. But if you keep planning, you'll waste your time (again I speak from personal experience).

This thread is almost the same as one of my early threads went... with me in your shoes, hoping of that perfect 1st-time layout, featured in many RR magazines and the envy of everyone else (OK, maybe that was just me ). So again I suggest to you - Lay some track! And have fun!

I can tell you for sure, that early post of mine with those three words was THE reason I'm not still in the planning stages.

 

IMHO:

If you are in a hurry, you will re-do the layout 8-10 times. If you are careful and take your time, you will re-do the layout 4-5 times. It is all fun and a great learning experience.

The NMRA website, or the NMRA layout design group, recommends something called givens and druthers. It is basically a list of what you have to have and what you can do without. Some items will be mutually exclusive, so you have to make a decision about what you will build.

I recommend taking your time. I made 4 layouts and then took about 2 years to design this last large one. It still changes all the time.

These guys are giving good advice, I think.

 

Go simple. You can always add complexity as you gain experience with the layout.

While I'm building a fairly large and complex layout (in terms of multi-decks), it's still a simple folded dogbone--one big loop. As I gain experience with it, I'll add in things like cross-overs, so I'll have a true double main (without cross-overs, it just looks like double track today). From previous layouts, which were cross-overed to death in the planning stage, I've learned to run for a while, in order to see where cross-overs are really needed.

Flash is absolutely on target. Changes, even to the best-planned layout, happen all the time, and are NOT a waste of your original effort. Real railroads do it all the time. At first it seems painful to tear up a scene where you've expended lots of effort. But the result is usually better, and more satisfying. To ease the pain, I usually leave some evidence of the "old" scene--an abandoned roadbed, an orphaned industry now in disrepair, remnants of a tunnel portal, etc.

Nothing was more painful to me than ripping out 12 feet of beautifully landscaped Appalachian hillside, in order to daylight the twin tracks underneath. It was an operational disaster for about five years--the time it took me to re-invent the purpose and course of that railroad. While it took me weeks to build the hillside, it took only a day or two to rebuild it--and the results were better than I ever anticipated.

So, go simple, get running, then decide on changes.

 

Thanks to all who replied,

Tonight I tore everything up and didn't stop till I laid out the basic loop of the Anthracite Creek. I did it a little bit different, but stayed with the basic design. I reversed the high and low points. With the origional design much of my view of the layout was blocked by the 2.5" high risers. I'll sit on that for a few days before I make anything more permanent. Right nows it's all foam, Woodland Scenic Risers and grades held together with T-pins. I'll post pictures when I make more progress. Thanks for the feedback, Dave

 

Now don't you feel better?

 

I found that no matter how hard you try to make the first layout your best, there will always be things you wished you had done different once it is complete. I started my first layout about 1 1/2 years ago, and have since sold it and am working on #2. I already have plans for #3. Don't be afraid to build a simple layout at first to get some experience. I know I agonized over a trackplan for months before I jumped into construction, and I still wasn't 100% satisfied. Building the layout is the funnest part in my opinion, so as long as I have a work-in-progress, I seem to really enjoy the hobby. In addition, always make sure you have the ability to run a train during the entire construction process! Not having this capability will kill your interest over time.

Here is layout #1, based on the Orin Line in Wyoming. This was a simple over/under figure 8 with a return loop running under the flood loader. For me, running trains is what I enjoy, so even though there was no real switching opportunities, I was still able to run a fairly long coal drag.


Layout #2 is more of an experiment with different scenery techniques. I wanted to try my hand at mountain scenery, and again I used a simple track plan with a single main, short passing track, and 2 sidings. not a lot of switching opportunities, but then my real enjoyment is watching a slow heavy train pull the grade.

 

Husker:

I agree with watching a long freight train pulled by an FT A-B-B-A or three other diesels move slowly up a long 2% grade. That is what I have on The JJJ&E which is 95% graded.

BTW, the new layout looks great. I also liked your original layout which I've seen many times on the Atlas forum.