Regardless of details, I'm happier than a cop in a donut shop with all the new locos coming out and can't wait till the UPS man brings me my Conrail SD80's and the two new BNSF SD60M'S. Just be thankfull that modern diesels are being produced but if ya ain't happy with em, then don't buy em.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Inkaneer: You see it but Kato didn't. They painted over it. Now look at an Atlas SD60M. Atlas saw the window too. Admittedly this is a small detail and a little gloss black or whatever color you choose will "correct" it but I could do the same thing on the fan detail that you pointed out that Kato had the greater depth. The point here is that while Kato got the window outline on the door they flat out missed the window. At $104.95 retail should we expect them to put in the window?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The Kato window on the nose is much better if you give it a little gloss black. The glazing in the window on the SD60M cab is resessed into the shell and isn't flush with the body. On the prototype, the window glass is flush with the body so the Kato version of this window is far superior.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kevin D Mumaw: Guys, can we cut the crap on who does better detail on there engines? I mean if you dont like the dynamic brake fan on the Atlas SD60M's then wait for Kato or LL to make one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree. We all know that Craig has better details on his locos! BTW - working ditch lights! WoooHoo! Russ/NYC The Hoffman Valley Railroad NARA#28
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Siebler: The Kato window on the nose is much better if you give it a little gloss black. The glazing in the window on the SD60M cab is resessed into the shell and isn't flush with the body. On the prototype, the window glass is flush with the body so the Kato version of this window is far superior.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> well we will wait for the production version maybe Kato will add the window. I did check my Atlas SD60M's and one window was flush and one was recessed a bit. Had to get the Optivisor for that one.
Look at the plows on the SD80 and SD90. Kato did 2 different styles appropriate for each roadname. Didn't see that on the B23-7 from Atlas. What I saw on the B23 from Atlas was a debris kicker that wasn't appropriate for the majority of the roadnames produced for the B23. Plus, Atlas chose to put it on both ends with isn't correct for the most of the roads either. I had to change the plows on the B23 to Sunrise plows to get the appropriate style.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Craig Martyn: I also saw fan blades on the fan right behind the cab on real SD60M's but Atlas didn't....big deal on both things....I'm done here.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If that's the case, then Atlas got it right. Starting with the SD50 series, when EMD moved the d/b from over the engine compartment to behind the cab, they changed the setup of the d/b fans. The grids were placed on top of the fan blades and motor; previously, the grids were under the fan, where the fan motor would get cooked from the hot air produced in dynamic braking. So what all of this means is that when you look at a SD40X/50S/50/60/70/75/80/89/90 unit from above, the first thing you'll see are the d/b grids and screen...the fan blades and motor are buried underneath, and out of the hot airstream.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Siebler: Look at the plows on the SD80 and SD90. Kato did 2 different styles appropriate for each roadname. Didn't see that on the B23-7 from Atlas. What I saw on the B23 from Atlas was a debris kicker that wasn't appropriate for the majority of the roadnames produced for the B23. Plus, Atlas chose to put it on both ends with isn't correct for the most of the roads either. I had to change the plows on the B23 to Sunrise plows to get the appropriate style.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Atlas did 6 different versions of the B23. When did Kato do that? Here is something to ponder on another message board someone rated Atlas, Kato and Lifelike using the three parameters of price, operation and details. Kato came in third behind Lifelike. So everyone has their own favorites using the parameters that are important to them. You don't like Atlas then don't buy Atlas. A lot of people do that with Bachmann But don't buy Atlas then complain that this isn't right or that isn't right. Didn't you know that before you bought it? If so why did you buy it? If you didn't know, then why didn't you. And Explain to me why we complain on Atlas's snowplows but say nothing about Kato's window less door or the pain schemes they screwed up. I got a CP SD 40-2 snoot as evidence. Then there is the UP thing and the walkways. Somehow those who howl against Atlas remain silent. Seems a bit hypocritical doesn't it?
Thats true mankind, but when the blades on the DB fan are standing still, they are still visible from above. As for the different style than they have been before, thats exactly right, these have screen on top as well as the thin circular metal braces. PS, not sure how many versions it was, but Kato did at least 4 on their C44.
Regarding the fan blades on the Atlas Kato locomotives, are not these blades supposed to move, that is, spin around. If so then you would not see stationary fan blades ala Kato. Then Kato is incorrect in this detail. And all manufacturers are incorrect in those ridges of plastic they call grab irons. Kato painted the CP SD40-2 snoots apparenty from one side and left a red shadow on the nose behind the "grab iron" where it should be black.
FIRST OFF: Someone please tell me about a locomotive that has ever been made that is 100% prototypical! SECOND: Why don't you all have it(and lots of it)in your train collections? THIRD: Haven't we all beat the Atlas vs. Kato thing into the ground? I personally buy the locomotives that I do because they are available.Yes I can go on for hours about how one engine is better than the other but I won't.If you don't like a engine don't buy it!I have yet to see on any of the manufacturers web sites that certain people must buy their product or else. I have said it before and I will say it again.If you don't like the HOBBY don't do it,Last time I checked tha stampcollecting forums are looking for a few good members.(no hurt intended for you stamp collectors). If all of the locomotives and rolling stock made were 100% prototypical we would have no need for detail parts and to me that would be boring.I personally like adding detail to my own engines.It makes it more special to me.Just look at what people do to make their stuff look better. GATS,ALAN,MITCH,ROYAL BLUE and CRAIG, make some of the neatest custom stuff I have ever seen.And it is nice to see the stuff they have done on trainboard.But if it weren't for the manufacturer making the locomotive then they couldn't have all added their handiwork to the thing. So instead of complaining about who is better than who detail them and make them your own!I havbe set down and looked at pics of the engines that are comming out and then I look at the prototype and try to model it from their.I did like how my BNSF B23-7's came with the correct trucks for the road number done.If you haven't looked each raod number has different truck like the prototypes.The manufacturers are listening to construtcive criticisms about the stuff they produce and that is making them better. I hope that this will help with the posts here.This is my two cents worth!
Following is my post from another thread that ended up on the SAME TOPIC. "Ok. I'll be honest. I'm getting sick of all this Atlas/Kato stuff. Here's what I think WHO CARES. They don't even model the same engines. Get over it already. Buy what YOU want to buy and don't critize others if they don't agree. We should focus on things we can improve - like how to model (enter subject here)better. Getting sick of all the bickering Scot "
Whatever the perceived shortcomings of models mentioned, just think back five years, (or less) and ask yourself "have they improved since then?" The answer has to be "yes". 'Nuff said!
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Inkaneer: Atlas did 6 different versions of the B23. When did Kato do that? Here is something to ponder on another message board someone rated Atlas, Kato and Lifelike using the three parameters of price, operation and details. Kato came in third behind Lifelike. So everyone has their own favorites using the parameters that are important to them. You don't like Atlas then don't buy Atlas. A lot of people do that with Bachmann But don't buy Atlas then complain that this isn't right or that isn't right. Didn't you know that before you bought it? If so why did you buy it? If you didn't know, then why didn't you. And Explain to me why we complain on Atlas's snowplows but say nothing about Kato's window less door or the pain schemes they screwed up. I got a CP SD 40-2 snoot as evidence. Then there is the UP thing and the walkways. Somehow those who howl against Atlas remain silent. Seems a bit hypocritical doesn't it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Kato made many versions of the C44-9W. High/low numberboards, Gullwing cab, 5 or 6 steps, different endrails. Kato's cab door is NOT windowless. There was such a big deal about it, I had to bring up the B23 snowplow issue to counter it. Who else is going to make a B23-7, NOBODY, so I have to buy the Atlas one to accurately model the UP. I know Kato has some paint problems, but atleast their paint isn't cracking and flaking off right before your eyes! I have never complained about detail innacuracy on either Kato or Atlas just because I felt like bringing it up. I only complain about Atlas detail inacuracy(such as B23-7 snowplow) to counter someone who makes a similar statement about Kato(such as SD90 window).
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Inkaneer: Regarding the fan blades on the Atlas Kato locomotives, are not these blades supposed to move, that is, spin around. If so then you would not see stationary fan blades ala Kato. Then Kato is incorrect in this detail. And all manufacturers are incorrect in those ridges of plastic they call grab irons. Kato painted the CP SD40-2 snoots apparenty from one side and left a red shadow on the nose behind the "grab iron" where it should be black.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Anybody that has spent any amount of time around real locos knows that radiator fans only kick in when the engine gets to a certain temperature. They do not operate all the time.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Inkaneer: You see it but Kato didn't. They painted over it. Now look at an Atlas SD60M. Atlas saw the window too. Admittedly this is a small detail and a little gloss black or whatever color you choose will "correct" it but I could do the same thing on the fan detail that you pointed out that Kato had the greater depth. The point here is that while Kato got the window outline on the door they flat out missed the window. At $104.95 retail should we expect them to put in the window?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Atlas' design requires somebody in the Atlas factory to put the window glazing in, pretty stupid engineering.
I have an SD90 CP rail unit on order, what differences are there between it and the UP , Conrail models?
Like Moose said, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Regardless of details, I'm happier than a cop in a donut shop with all the new locos coming out and can't wait till the UPS man brings me my Conrail SD80's and the two new BNSF SD60M'S. Just be thankfull that modern diesels are being produced but if ya ain't happy with em, then don't buy em. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is the whole guts of this original post, the Kato SD90 is the latest and greatest EMD engine on the Market and this engine is available as a model in Nscale. I sometimes wonder are some of the people who post on Trainboard just collectors and not modellers, or are they just after an argument or as we say in Australia "**** Stirrers"? I see the greatest asset to any hobby is having a variety of products being available, why quibble about Kato or Atlas, I for one am glad the manufacturers are releasing modern engines in the roads I model. Yes Kato is expensive, but a wise man once said "The initial discontentment of paying a higher initial price is long forgotten once the quality of the product is exhibited over time"
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colonel: I have an SD90 CP rail unit on order, what differences are there between it and the UP , Conrail models?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hi Paul. The major differences bwetween the SD80 and SD90 (UP vs. Conrail) is the rear end and the nose. The UP 90's have nose mounted headlights where the SD80's have high mounted headlights. The rear ends are also different. I have 4 UP's on order, here is my plan for all: 1. Scratch build Phase II cab, detail, repaint 2. Detail 3. Detail 4. Strip, detail and repaint in the CEFX scheme. 2.
ok guys let's get over it. maybe we should remeber the late 70's and early 80's era in nscale when you got bachmann and model power! boy there was some quality there, heck there was a guy on here about a year ago that was a big fan of current bachmann and con-cor stuff, anyone remember him, he caused alot of trouble here? i suppose when you come to get such good quality as we get now people get greedy and their wants never end. if you look at the b23 plows they were appropriate for the roads because the majority were roads from the 80's, thses units were for locals and seldom made freight hops and yes they are on both ends TOO. next people will want a darn engineer and conductor to come with these things so they can get even more lazy and not do a thing except get up in the morning and scratch their butt! lets gripe about something that matters now how about starting on getting a standard couple not the rapido flop of old! lets get off it we're beating a dead horse here. mitch
Wow... i never thought i'd see the day when Trainboard would look like this Regarding those models... noones perfect are they? They don't look that bad to me though.
