53' Grabber can be trimmed to 48' or 40'. Lifter can be adjusted to six (6) stacks high. Primed prototype attached. Jim
IM-1 Intermodal Forklift & Grabber Jim, It might help sales if the forklift was more prototypical to what Intermodal & container yards use. Your product closely resembles the container forklift that Nansen Street offers. Both of these products, if in real life have no counterweight so neither of these forklifts could lift an empty container let alone a full one. The container grapple is huge! If you go to Yahoo Z_Scale group and type in Piggy Packer in the search I am sure you will find many mentions of a desire, from fellow Z scalers, to own this prototypical machine. From what I recall the Mi-Jack company manufactured the Piggy Packer. Today their are several companies that manufacture container lifts that utilize a boom for lifting, similar to the boom forklifts. The end container grapple can even swivel nearly 180 degrees so a lift could load a container into a well car from an angle. The old Piggy Packer had to line up the container with the well car. Operators had to be good at the wheel to get the container pretty much lined up with the center of the well car on the first approach! Their is a greater flexiblitiy in todays machinery! This is my two cents! I will purchase one modern boom container lift or an old Piggy Packer if someone was to make them in Z and the cost Rea$onable. I will not purchase anything that does not fit the bill! I write this with the knowledge of what I have read, in the intermodal chronicles, to be true and the common sense that goes with it. It is possible that some of my statements of facts could be off, but they are what I know and believe to be true. Hobo Tim
The Spreader- the top horizontal- seems much more complicated than Nasan street models, and is impressive. The vertical track seems it's weakest part if made of similar material to bulldozers. Worklights may break off tractor and wheels might fall off. If manufactured PROPERLY I would consider purchasing one. I want to give Jim credit- he is taking Z where we never have been before, and it's a learning process. The Pete's are great all painted up and detailed( side mirrors,wind deflectors, wire exhaust pipes) with decals. And SOMEONE even added headlightz. I suspect that down the road the vertical track may have to be reinforced with wire to bear the load of a hollow container, unless it can be beefed up prior to finish production. Exact tollerances are great- but not when everything breaks apart. Best, Fred
IM-1 Prototype in Savannah Tim, Thank you so much for your complete, precise and positive remarks regarding the prototype used for our IM-1 Container Forklift model. If you use Google and submit the words "Container Forklift" (IN THE SINGULAR) using the IMAGES search engine, you will discover one of the first findings is "Forklift Traders Pty Limited". www.flt.com.au On their site you will find the Omega, Clark, Linde, and Hyster models referenced below and accompanied by the appropriate photos (one of which - Omega 54D - was used as our prototype vehicle, lifter and gripper since we used their drawings). And, all of which use aft mounted variable mass counterweights, visiable as "bulges" and "bumps" toward the bottom rear of the vehicles. Additionally, in most issues of a magazine entitled "Georgia Anchor Age" (We like the pun!) which is published quarterly by The Georgia Ports Authority (www.gaports.com), and distributed free of charge to more than 9,000 Intermodal readers worldwide including, the Intermodal Sales and Operations personnel of the CSX & Norfolk Southern Railroads serving the GA ports, you will find excellent photos of these prototypes actually in use near you. If you tour the Port of Savannah, you may find additional examples of the following;(which we used for reference) The Omega 54D DCH 40,000kGS which has a Gantry 20 x 40 Spreader with a Cummins M11 powerplant and with APC auto transmission shift. In fact, the variable counterweight is Omega's original design. or, the Omega 48C 36,000Kgs 20 x 40 Spreader Cummins 6CT also with a Clark Transmission with APC100 auto shift, or, the Linde C360/4 1997 36,000kg which features a High Cab Air Condition Elme 20x40 spreader and Perkins powerplant. The Hyster H48.00E-16CH 40,000Kg which Stacks 4 high with a 20x40 and finally, the Clark CY448 20,800/38,000 Kg which features: a Perkins Engine and 2440mm forks and a Sideshift & Fork Positioner. If you can get into the Georgia Ports Authority Savana Intermodal Terminal, please give my regards to John Trent, the Ops mgr. Its nice to know American products are being used in an American Intermodal Port by American railroads, and in almost all international intermodal ports. However, you should also be aware that these types of heavy lift Container Transfer Vehicles are used in other US ports than just those in GA. We actually see them here on the Pacific Coast in Seattle, Portland, SF, Oakland, Richmond, Long Beach, and San Diego, as well as in in eastern and southern intermodal ports of NY/NJ, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Charleston, Miami, New Orleans, Houston, Memphis, and St. Louis. You might also try to see other of these counterweighted prototypes in the directories of Jane's Freight Containers, and Jane's Containerization, and in Fairplay's Intermodal Services Directory. Jim Shiff
Well Informed Indeed! Jim, If you can get your container forklifts to look exactly like some of those photos you posted, and also have the RP Acrylic beefy enough where small and delicate pieces will not break in transport or from simple handling, and lastly, all parts look proportionate I'll scrape together the $$ to purchase one! We are talking dual front tires, adequate main forklift body(the length and width), thick axles (the prototypical "Hidden" axles in past models break tooooo easily), and a container grapple frame that looks proportionate(not overly big in size), and I'll get one! ------------------------- Now, I have a suggestion for you! Perhaps, instead of offering a container forklift of a certain design and asking for pricing suggestions, you should ask the masses here on the Trainboard Z scale if they would prefer an older Piggy Packer, a container forklift, or a container boom lift! A poll with photos attached. I know what it is to sink $$$ into R&D. As I stated in my earlier message, the majority of requests and chit-chat I have witnessed in online chat and read in the message threads have been desires for Mi-Jack's Piggy Packer!!! Perhaps you are offering the wrong container/trailer loader! Just my suggestion! Hobo Tim
Piggy Packer quote Tim, If you would like a quote for a Mi-Jack "Piggy Packer", provide 3-view dimensioned drawings, as Dan Stirpe has for the Z Scale Car Club, and Omega did for the Container Forklift model shown, (both attached as samples) and we will build a single prototype for your pricing. You can then purchase 10 units as a dealer and sell them directly. SEARAILS has always offered this service. Jim
Regretfully! Jim, I have this over rated talent of scratchbuilding things! If I see something I like, I can replicate it into Z scale using a variety of building options be it sheet/shape styrene, plastic injection, cast resin, vacuum forming, metal etching, metal casting, machining, or printing. If the desire is strong enough, I'll build it. If someone makes something that I like, I will weigh the options of $$$ vs My Time to Build. In the case of this container forklift, I'll pass. If you read not only between the lines, but the lines themselve, you will see that the greatest desire of Intermodal Z scalers has been a want of a Mi-Jack Piggy Packer. These are TRANSITIONAL ERA Intermodal Loaders/Un-loaders. I am more a modern modeler, so if you were to make a Piggy Packer at a reasonable cost I would get one only to weather it and have it sitting outside the maintenance shed for ill repair. Old and beat up. Road hard and put up wet! Just like this photo shows. In other words, used as a last resort! Only if one dares to operate the dinosaur! AZL is greatly changing the Z scale environment by producing modern diesel locomotion. But, the massive, overwhelming majority of Z scalers are still stuck in the TRANSITION ERA!!!!! I consider myself a modern modeler! I'd say about 15% or less of the Z scale world population is Modern. Out of those 15% maybe half model North American Z scale. Small percentage! The North American Z scale Transition Era modelers is probably in the 65% or better. That is a lot of potential customers! When I made the suggestion about the Mi-Jack Piggy Packer, it was because I listen to what people have shared with me and others about what Z scale equipment and items they desire! I was only trying to plant a bug in your ear! MTL is making Transitional era diesel locos. F7, GP35 and soon the GP9. They are stuck in the era where the majority of Z scalers are! There is nothing wrong with the Transitional Era, I just prefer to model modern. --------------------------- Ok, this is the last message I'll post to this thread. I can see it has gotten way out in left field. The ball is back in the pitchers hand. The game is over, it was a tie! Have a great day! Hobo Tim
Transition Era Intermodal (Please note that I am only talking about mainstream North America here. I do not know what was going on in Europe at this point) While intermodal transport may have begun in the transition era, or before, the widespread use of dedicated container lifts was not really practical until containers were standardized. Before that point, railroads and shipping companies used whatever size and shaped container that best fit their existing equipment. Most of these were fitted with lifting fixtures to be loaded or unloaded using cranes. Ship to train to truck containers were also very uncommon until the late sixties, and those that did exist were for dedicated routes. The most common intermodal system by the mid 50s was TOFC service (Trailer on Flat Car). Container service was still mainly smaller containers that were still quite dependent on individual railroad designs. While some containers were designed to fit on truck or trailer chassis, most were still loaded onto flatbed trailers, and mostly by crane or forklift. Dedicated container lifters were not really possible (or at least practical) until the standardization of containers began in the late 60's and 70's. The type of container lift that Searails is considering would not have been built beore that point, and that type is still being built today (I don't know about that exact model). A couple of fairly new container transloading facilities (truck to train/train to truck) have opened in my area over the past few years, and I see the vertical boom (forklift type) container stackers all the time. This is NOT a transition era item by a long shot. And, while it is not the "latest and greatest" design, it is a very common one. Like any other piece of industrial or construction equipment, new innovations come along, but the old standards hang on as well; both in 30 year old holdouts and new products based on older designs. It was well over 20 years ago that I saw my first cement mixer (truck) with a forward facing chute so that the driver could operate it from the cab, and easily position the truck. Back then, it looked funny and backward and they were rare. Now, you can see them everywhere. They are quite popular. But, you still see brand new versions of the old (about 80 years old) design. And, they are still the majority. In another 20 years, I doubt they will be, but, I'd be willing to bet the old style will still be highly visible. Like everything else, the "latest and greatest" innovations in machinery will get the most press and publicity, but it takes decades for their predecessors to give way and vannish to the scrap heap. Dan S.
