If I were the CEO... of XYZ model train co... how do I promote the hobby?

Bob,

Your bluetooth system sounds interesting. I think you are seeing responses here that represent generational preferences as well as concerns.

For me, the "best" system is one that allows me to act like a train crew rather than a dispatcher or a computer programmer. That is my preference, even though I have been programming and using computers since 1964. It is just the best "feel" for me to enjoy the hobby. The benefits of bluetooth (or radio control) are just that I don't need to be mindful of where a throttle wire is plugged in to control my DCC system. Throwing turnouts by hand and uncoupling cars with a pick makes me feel more like I am running the train than sitting behind a computer console and never touching anything but the comuter keys.

But, obviously, others feel differently. Some seem to want their operations to be a "show" that seems to spectators to not require any human intervention at all. Some seem to enjoy automation along the lines of what the real railroads have done, using computers to provide ATC, etc. There is a wide variety of preferences. And, older generations typically are more comfortable with what at least appear to be analog controllers for things like speed and direction, while younger generations seem more at ease with keying-in digital inputs to addresses that control functions.

I think a bluetooth system that is bi-directional can provide a good digital structure that can give a wide variety of feels and control methods. The kid that wants to use his cell phone can do that at the same time that a geezer can use a dedicated bluetooth throttle device with a thumbwheel or knob and some dedicated marked push buttons.

So, I am watching with interest. You just might be on the threshold of another paradigm shift in model train control. One that can appeal to a wider range of interests with a lower threshold for entry. And that could be great for our hobby.

Steve

If your system can provide for most of those preferences, it could be a really important

 

It strikes me that being able to use cell phone or Ipad (or Android) has one major advantage - why recreate a new electronic device (a la throttle) when a readily available device they probably already have can get an app and run trains for free? If it saves newbs any cost at all, it will be a help to anyone interested in model railroading, or converting to DCC for that matter. Why focus all our attention on lower cost locos, when lower cost controls could be just as effective in keeping our costs down?

(Sorry if already mentioned)

 

Sorry, I thought you were seconding the prior post on wireless.

I am definitely not saying “what can be developed will be completely flawless"! Although there are management and technical techniques that allow a dedicated group to come purity close. And they have been around for a long time now.

Most of what are considered “flaws” in the common and widely used computer and wireless technology are actually “back-doors” or “future-fixes” that have been left in the systems for various reasons. Reasons that I will not explore. These “flaws” have being going on for a long time, and will probably always be with us (for better and for worse).

Those that post here and the forum are all using this “flawed” technology, mostly for the better. My layout is certainly better because of this forum and its posters. Keep up the good work! Thank You!
Bob

 

If I were CEO of a model train company that had its own forum,...

I would have the forum administrators give the forum users a reason(s) when a post or thread was deleted.

I would also have a user-visible “post-deletion” policy that my administrators would have to abide by.

I would explain to my forum administrators how many hobbyist (and especially new hobbyist) are turned off by seeing their content deleted without any explanation.

If this happens to resemble any existing model train company, it is intended exclusively to help them (and the hobby).
Bob

 

I would like to point out the topic of this thread and everyone who is old enough to have been employed for a significant period of time has at least one story about some piece of technology that was supposed to be greater than sliced bread which would fix everything and pay for itself in no time only for it to turn into a complete mess.

 

Hmm, BetaMax, HD DVD anyone?

 

I am a promoter of DBTC that is what I am doing to “promote the hobby” in general and in particular to potential new hobbyist.

DBTC products are what I recommend to “the CEO... of XYZ model train co... how do I promote the hobby?”

What I am trying to do with DBTC is a real long-shoot, and if I were a betting person, I would bet on it failing. There are just too many ingrained interests and too many companies that will do everything they can to control the future of this hobby (not a complaint, just reality).
Bob

 

Hey now....

I still have a BetaMax machine. Plus...If my memory serves...TV stations the last I heard still used BetaMax as thier recording format for recording live video feeds out in the field

 

I'm still watching my videos. There's no way I could afford to replace them.

Saw, all to often capital expenditures for hospital diagnostic equipment become outdated and fall behind the new standard. Next to impossible to keep ahead of the game.

What I fear most with model railroading is I will get all my locomotives converted over to DCC and all of a sudden new techology will come along and those ever present decoders...today...will become a thing of the past. Electronics is not something to fool around with and once a decoder is down so is the motor or locomotive it's in. Well...almost!

Now we haven't seen that happen with anything else....have we? I think I will keep my Analog DC piped in....just in case.

Was I whining or was that just venting? Hell, no I was ranting!

 

But the thing is, will a new hobbyist care? Remember that we're talking about someone who is walking into a hobby store for the first time with the thought of running trains. That person wants their first experience to be cheap, simple, and reliable. As a result, that's why DC will never die out because it delivers that first experience so well from a control aspect.

Now, before you run up to your roof, rip your hair out and start screaming about Luddites everywhere; the technology you are promoting is important as a next step for beginners. Basically, it's best suited for those who have already stepped into the waters of the hobby, find it to be pleasant and are now thinking about going further into it. Essentially, it could allow the transition to digital control from DC to be as simple as that first step with DC. In theory, wireless train control would allow you to keep your DC throttle and all you would need to do to switch over is pull out a cell phone and set your DC throttle to full with the total number of locomotives being limited by only the amperage put out by that power pack. However, that potential is lost on someone with only one locomotive and a loop.

This is why we're stressing the importance of being able to K.I.S.S. when it comes to getting new people to dive in to the hobby.

 

I plead complete ignorance about hobby stores; I am just too far out in the country. But I think that a hobby store that has a DC train setup to promote the hobby is like a phone store using an ATT-line-line phone setup to promote phones. But this is just my ignorant opinion.

I agree that a simple DC layout is more “K.I.S.S.“ that a DBTC layout (or DCC). But a wooden “Thomas” train layout is more “K.I.S.S.“ that a simple DC layout. But this is also just my ignorant opinion.
Bob

 

Actually, I do think that BRIO has a role to play with promoting the hobby when it comes to generating interest in the "I'm still figuring out how these things called 'hands' work." age group because of its simplicity and the safety factor.

 

I have not responded up until now - as although I am the owner of a manufacturer www.nscalekits.com we sell to the already engaged!

All hobbies need to recruit youngsters [or even the more mature!] into the hobby. I am surprised, and pleased to see how many folks go to model railway shows, with their youngsters, to get an interest in the hobby. What does disappoint me is how few of these shows have an opportunity for visitors, especially the young ones, to 'drive' the trains.

Running a model train - especially a long N Scale consist, is always more fun than just watching - and I know how problematic this can be - but there appears to be few displays that facilitate this. On my club module we do allow young people to drive the train [it happens to be DCC but could be other systems] during quieter times. One of the modules has a specific area - away from the 'main line' where visitors can play trains by doing some switching. I think that the module has some slightly older, less valuable, cars just in case there is an incident - but none has happened so far, AFAIK.

This has provoked even more interest, and some joiners too. We will recruit new enthusiasts if we give them a chance to enthuse what we we enjoy, which often is running trains - and not just dream about building a beautiful scene.

Peter

Peter Harris
N Scale Kits
www.nscalekits.com

 

Before I get rolling here. I agree with Ken's observation in the post prior to this one. Here it comes my two cents worth and I take change.

I've worn several hats on the administrative side of the fence. CEO or CFO is not one of them.

I'm not always sure we the laymen and women can see things through the eyes of a CEO. We have a few administrative types on board here and a CEO or two. The hobby isn't about the train equipment I want but what will sell the most of and in a short period of time. Cash flow, cash flow and did I say cash flow. It's all about the almighty dollar and profit. If the CEO's and CFO's of small toy train manufacturers can see their way clear to produce a new item and the demands are apparent...they will produce it.

Gone forever is Athearn as we knew it and gone forever are other product lines. Here to stay is the high cost of new items. But the truth is we've NEVER EVER HAD IT SO GOOD! Seriously. Until we start talking about availability of parts...that's a downer.

Addressing the manufacturers: Now allow me to rant about Pre-Orders. Get off it! I don't pre-order nor will I pre-order and don't expect me and a fair majority of model railroaders to pre-order. It's not going to happen. A manufacturer needs to be tuned into it's distributors, who contact the LHS's, who if acting responsibly knows it's customer base and what they've are asking for. However, pre-orders are not a fool proof indicator as to what the customer is wanting and never will be. So get off it.

In closing but never finished.

Simplicity is what most newcomers want. Complicated is not attractive.

CEO's, CFO's, Administrators, Presidents do not see things through the buyers eyes. Lucky for us when we find one that does. Most of us worker bee's will never understand the why's and what for's of business. Don't expect us to. Give us what we want but at a fair price. Lucky for us when a manufacturer is producing toy trains because of his or her love for the hobby.

If you are looking for more to be said visit BarstowRick.com, go to "Categories" and look for Rick's Rant or Lessons Learned. I know a shameless plug.

If we ain't buying they ain't selling.
Enough said.:wideeyes:

 

It has been my experience that most people behave differently in public, especially when they perceive that they might embarrass themselves. I better test for want new users might want would be to have all the reasonable control options available to try in a less threatening environment.

I have had 5 young kids in to run trains on my layout, and not one favored the tethered-controls. I started most of them on a DC-control, then on one of the simpler DCC-controls and then an IR wireless DCC-control. However they did use the DC-control a lot with the “crash” train hardware, but it was not the control that held their interest.

Children are curious about “old” technology, but it does not hold their interest very long.
Bob

 

Well I am no longer a former CEO, I am back at the head of the company I started years ago. My replacement CEO decided to retire and I had the itch to come back anyway.

So how does a CEO look at the world, in many different ways. First lets make sure the CEO isn't a potential felon from the Wharton School of Business. I am not one of those....... All my degrees are in Engineering, Mathematics and Theoretical Physics.

Behind every good CEO is a good CFO, and it is this combination that makes for success or failure. At my company any one in the financial department that tries to make a case for outsourcing, well the CFO immediately terminates that individual. Outsourcing is not part of the company philosophy. Next to the direction of the top two officers of the corporation, the corporate philosophy is the equally important in guiding the company and should not be determined lightly. It should be an integral part of the day to day operations.

The employees should be viewed as the number one asset of the company, because it is their labors that make the company thrive. Whether they are design engineers or machinists, they all are part of the company. While their pay scales may be different, the overall benefits are the same for every employee, even the officers of the company. The people are the first primary concern of the CEO, because without good people, you don't get anywhere. A great deal of effort is spent in employee retention. The best way to do that is to empower the employees within an environment that makes it awfully difficult to even think about leaving.

The next integral part is the revolving 5 year plan for product execution. This is a combination of internal research and analyzing current market conditions and bringing the product that will address holes in the market. Part of the emphasis is on bringing in a return on investment so the company can expand, whether that be in larger production runs or adding new products based on new and future market strategies.

Craig Martin has followed a similar strategy with BLMA, and I commend him on some of the decisions he has made not to follow product expansion models that may have overextended the risk to BLMA's potential future. This is a common mistake that is made. Lets look where he is now compared to where he was when his first detail products came to the marketplace. Steady controlled growth that supported BLMA's new product expansion.

So one part of the CEO's responsibility is for a good plan and continuing to execute that plan when it comes to products used to generate funds for future development.

Another part of the life of a CEO is also the day to day operations and seeing that the production schedules are kept, working with the different department to continually improve processes that improve to the efficiency of the operations.

The fun part for me is then turning my attention to the engineers where it is my turn to share a vision of the technology future and how we are going to fit in it, and I get to challenge them to make it happen or even make it better than I imagine. Steve Jobs was a master motivator and a master visionary, but he didn't design the iPhone or the iPad etc. He shared his vision and also his requirements for the products and then let the engineers and the software teams turn it into reality. And I am pretty sure he was around quite a lot while the products were being designed and participated by sharing new ideas or features as well as monitoring the current state of development.

Next the CEO works with the Marketing and Sales departments to help put together plans for next generation products and services. This is based on solid analytics by sampling both internal costs for processes with external market conditions and coalescing them into a unified analytic model. It is from this model that future financials are determined for capital reinvestment, research and development, employee training etc. This is the hardest part for me because I see technology more easily than finance, but that is why I have a fiscal savant as my CFO, and incidentally my very best friend. As he says, you take care of the technology and when it has a $, that is when I take over. It has been a policy that has worked since we started the company, and he is the reason it is so fiscally sound.

And when everyone has called it a night, the CEO is there to turn out the lights. Because every good CEO knows it really stands for Cleanup Everything OK. And we have to analyze where the company stood at the beginning of the day and where it ended up at the end of the day. And from the extrapolate where things need to be tomorrow at this same time and what needs to be done to get there.

This was my world before my daughter was born, and now that she is in school all day, it is my world again.

So how does this relate to trains, well it relates that there has to be a vision of the future and a means to get there. It means really understanding the market forces in your chosen markets. It is understanding it well enough to know where it has to be in 5 years time.

So look at the state of the locomotives, years ago the idea of sound in an N scale locomotive wasn't even considered until Soundtraxx and others came out with the sound decoders. They slowly evolved their products to address the different scales. And now we have sound decoders first arriving in the tenders of steam locomotives, then cut up diesel locomotives to make sound work, and now they are coming from the factory with sound pre installed. But as a locomotive manufacturer, what is my next improvement? Is it getting better decoder options or is it improving the drivelines so they have more torque and can pull more cars, possibly investing in better alloys so there is more weight on the rails? Maybe it is time to die-cast metal railings and stanchions with an alloy that will be stiff and hard enough to survive without breaking? Maybe it is to take the next quantum leap into road specific detailing? Look at things like the factory Loksound decoders, they existing details and decide what needs to happen next? Fox Valley did a commendable job bringing about the Gevos, and with some issues, turned around and fixed them. Kato had ditchelights on some of their model for years. Fox Valley was the first one to add rear ditchlights.

When you look a freight cars, the bar is pretty high to beat some of the things out there today from many of the manufacturers, but what is the next step? Is is better details and more road specific features? How about some variation of the cars released with a combination DC/DCC FRED factory installed similar to the DC or DCC versions of the locomotives? Follow again with better alloys for better weighting so the cars roll more smoothly? Are there new cars that nobody has done yet, and would they be viable models that could justify the production run? BLMA did a nice job with the NS TOP Gons as far as the new model. It could have been better if it was released with a quality load and metal wheelsets, so should I make sure the next new car can come out more finished than the Top Gons? What about the cool new B&O Wagontop cabooses from Fox Valley. They are pretty darn near perfect in my eye. But what is missing that I would need to recognise as I was looking at potential models? I would say a DC/DCC board on the under the floor that allowed the marker lights to shine, had controllable lighting inside the caboose and now add the internal details. Now how could I do that with my car, make it that complete?

Why don't all passenger cars come with dc/dcc boards that allow for lighting off the track power? And while we are at it, why not add that the lighting can be varied as needed and that maybe there is an ultra miniature smoke unit in the kitchen end of the dining cars? Maybe we to a better detailing of the interiors and not cast and paint, but actually place fabrics on the seats, plates and silverware on the dining car tables and make the roof easily detachable so modelers can easily add passengers in every car. What else could we do?

Better molds would yield better track, but the alloy of the rails could use some updating. While I de-stress by hand laying turnouts, why not fabricate with the fidelity of a hand laid turnout and actually deliver it as a drop in object already to go on top of roadbed and subroadbed with the dc/dcc controlled switch machine already installed? Just drop it into the layout and connect the tracks and power - done!

DCC, we have talked about it, now it is time to do something more about it. JMRI was a huge step forward, but being a Java based language leads to its shortcomings. Why the heck do we have to type in Atchison Topeka and Santa Fe every time I add a locomotive into the roster? Why are there no drop down pick lists? Why can't I work on the programming of one SD-40, get it perfect and then apply the program to update the the roster to all SD-40's? Sure I would need to write the new programming to the decoder, but why not have part of the DCC software check for differences in the CV setting and automatically download they changes once the locomotive is set on the track? If you have 200 ATSF SD-40's it does take some time to place on the programming track and write to the locomotive then move it to the operational track. Now what would be the time it would take to do a flash update to the decoder once it is on the track? Perhaps a better programming method that allows all CV's to be set at once and not stepped through a CV at a time. Why not add more features to simulate the prototype? Why not have a random locomotive fire? Why not have some other mechanical failure that stops the train until a helper or set of helpers arrive to tow the train to the destination and possibly drop off the broken down locomotive at a service point like the real railroads do? How about running out of fuel? Look at things some of the decoder manufacturers are doing a figure out how to improve . Zimo has a way to auto calculate the speed table based on running the locomotive a preset distance with the entry of the desired speed. How can this be improved? Do you take a shot at unseating ESU sound decoders?

This would be my thought process if I was in the model railroad industry. I would start by finding the right niche to get a foothold. That would be the hardest part. Then I would have to figure out how to make cost palatable. Now you know I would be up most nights trying to figure this out. Just like I am up most nights after my daughter goes to bed before I can get back to work. That is what the CEO life is like. From a CEO.

 

Well put David. Now if you need some help with those decisions. I only work on a voluntary basis and strictly in a consolatory role.

Now to the rest of us tuned in. Let's see where can we sneak David into. When it comes to manufacturing train equipment. He's on to something here.

 

David,

Interesting in a quick read, and agree that the CEO has to balance the here and now with the future. The, you get mostly in to talking about products for the existing, sophisticated modeler, sort of confirming Rick's hypothesis that the CEO doesn't always think like the (new) customer, unless you think tech is where its all at for getting new folks in the hobby.

I like that commercial that says (approximately) "I love technology, but don't think it should supplant service." I think newbs need a human touch, and tech that makes it all easier to get started, not tech for next level enjoyment. I agree with RT Coker, people are just embarrassed at what they don't know, and afraid to break something to boot.

Short version, I think there is a lot of room for low tech approaches to this problem, more along marketing lines (the five year plan you mention) rather than product refinement. Developing social media, along with opportunities to get involved, email lists from anyone who shows any interest, opportunities to get involved, etc.

I know many say the LHS is the portal, but that is going away, and most really never did much more than open the doors to folks willing to walk in. Maybe its train shows and clubs that have to do it now. And, maybe they don't do enough to upgrade the LHS experience, other than have more vendors in one place.

I like the idea of clubs at shows allowing folks to run their trains as a incentive. I can't recall that at any train show, other than maybe the Timesaver puzzle at the main booth. I would think running a long train for a lap, maybe setting up a one move switching operation along with that run, etc., would get more semi interested folks even more excited. And I know the G scale layouts on the floor do mesmerize kids.

And, if clubs are unwilling to let strangers run trains for obvious reasons (although maybe they could lower the top voltage to keep the trains at reasonable speed) then maybe a few mfgs ought to band together to build portable display layouts of their own that can move from show to show, with the express purpose of making it available to run by the public. Yeah, one run a year might be enough for a lot of dads and kids, but you take your chances.