I have noticed that some of the wheelsets on my older rolling stock (10-12 year old Athearn, MDC, Accurail, Walthers, etc) are starting to give problems and jump track. I have RELIGIOUSLY: </font> Pulled cars periodically and check gauge w/ NMRA tool</font> Periodically check for side-to-side play in the axles</font> Monitor coupler height, operation, and working order</font> Ensure all wheels are free rolling</font> It is the last item on the list that I have identified as the "bug-aa-boo". I have noticed that the cars with older Kadee trucks / metal wheels are sticking, etc. I cleaned the axle points and truck bearing pockets and was able to get them to freeroll again..... but I still played, worked, adjusted, prayed, did incantations, voodoo, you name it and they would NOT stop this confounded track jumping. This afternoon however, I pulled several of the culprit cars, left the trucks on, and slipped in some LifeLike Proto 2000 metal wheels sets I had hanging on my work bench. VOILA!!! Solved everything. My question is... WHY would a "seemingly" perfectly operating wheelset cause so much problem??????? Especially when that wheelset is in gauge, has a little play, and free rolls????? Anyone else experience such strangeness???? -Kitbash [ 09. September 2002, 00:19: Message edited by: Kitbash ]
Kitbash, My therory on this is the points of the axles and the bearing cup in the trucks side frame. Once ran awhile an begines to wear on cast metal or plastic side frames it wears and makes filings and widens the bearing cup at the journals. this gives way to side to side play. When this happens being the axle point is beveled along with the counter sink bearing cup in the side frame it leaves the track slide to one side or another causing more weight to lean to one side or the other which changes the way it works when in use.... This is why you may have had alot of derailments. to much side to side play will cause the truck to shift to one side or the other changing its ballence and picking the opposite side of the truck up and the wheels loose contact with the rail which derails it... With this happening... The joints in your rail also help this along the quick jerk of a rail joint will move the truck fast enough and the "bump" will lift the truck up and derail it as well... As for the wheels themself, a few other members will also agree with me. the rail itself has a sharp ridge on the inside an outside of the rail head. once ran on, the wheels get a "wear mark" from it and will "ride" that sharp edge, and once it cuts into the wheels it is very likely to ride the sharp edge an ride up the rail and derail.. I've seen this on alot of plastic wheels but few metal wheels. Soft metal wheels will act the same why. That sharp edge cuts into the soft metal and plastic wheels, creating a grove, if the lip catches this grove in the wheel it will ride it, and can life the wheel up and over the flange and derail it.. Good metal wheels will not do this! and even a little extra weight over the trucks also help this. On your track, you can take a small fine riffler file and file the inside of both rails to help eliminate this and all. Not to many think about it or realize this... HTH
Have you heard of "THE TOOL" See a picture of it at http://reboxx.com/Tools.htm The tool has a cutter on one end and the other end is shaped like an Athearn, MDC, Walthers, or P2K axle end. To use it insert it in a truck like you would an axle. Then squeeze the sideframes together and spin the "TOOL" using the rubber collar in the center. The cutter end will remove any flash, dirt, paint & debris and generally open up the journal a bit. Flip it end for end and do the other side of the truck.
CORRECTION ON THAT URL. I left off the www Should be http://www.reboxx.com/Tools.htm Sorry John, at 6:00 AM not firing on all four.
I haven't noticed the problems you've been having, but one thing I have started doing is replacing plastic wheelsets with metal ones, either Proto 2000 or Reboxx. I make sure the 33" wheels go on the cars up to 70 tons, and 36" wheels go on cars that are supposed to handle 100+ tons. Between the two, the Reboxx wheels look much closer to scale (not as wide as plastic or P2K). Any new cars in HO I get have metal wheels installed (unless they already come with them, such as the P2K hoppers from LifeLike). It's an expensive proposition (spent up to 9 bucks for a set of 12 wheelsets from Reboxx), but spread out over time it's easier.
It's called wear. I belong to a club that has over 500 freight cars. Some of these cars have been around since the late 70's early eighties. We were having the same problem, cars coming off for no apparent reason, until we did closer inspection. The flanges and the wheels on the culprit cars were just worn off and wouldn't track through curves, or turnouts. These are metal wheels as well. So our club re-introduced the standards committee and they are now going over all the freight cars, replacing lost springs, broken couplers, and worn wheels. Now if we get that type of wear on the wheels, I wonder how badly the track is worn, and when will we have to start replacing it. [ 12. September 2002, 15:58: Message edited by: ajy6b ]
Well, technically our trains aren't models; they are real - just small . Same problems - just smaller??
I definately need to invest into one of those tools "The Tool" I have a ton of trucks I need to ream out to custom fit new metall wheelsets into the truck frames! Thing is, not one hobby shop in my area has any clue of what I'm asking about if they can order it for me and know what it is.... As for the URL Chuck, we all make mistakes! We're all human so. We're entitled to that!
John, I bot two. I can Air lift one out of here tomorrow. $11.00 including shipping. Let me know at locomotive3@prodigy.net I couldn't pull trainboard up during the day?*&%?#+? so e-mail me and post. This way I'm sure I will see your reply.
How about those Reboxx wheels? I have tried Kadee, Jaybee, P2K, and Intermountain, but I haven't seen any Reboxx yet. So far, I rank the ones I've tried in this order: 1. Intermountain Semi-scale 0.088 2. Jaybee 0.110 3. P2K 0.110 4. Kadee 0.110 This rating is based upon appearance, reliability and durability. The Intermountain wheels are fantastic and have saved my ATSF 10-Pack Fuel Foiler from the wrecking yard. Not a single derailment empty or loaded in any position in a train since the Athearn plastic wheels were replaced. The Jaybees are fitted to all of my RoadRailers and CouplerMates and I have had zero problems with them. The reason for second place is the appearance, particularly the "yellowed" brass tread once it's worn in. The P2Ks are fairly reliable and are excellent in appearance. They find their way under boxcars and gondolas around these parts since that hides the wider tread pattern (0.110). The face and profile (not including the tread) of the wheels is simply amazing. The detail cast into the face is wonderful, particularly on the steam era stuff. The downside is the plastic axle, which is very easy to misshape and retard rolling ability. Kadee gets fourth place simply because they are the least inclined to roll freely. They look good, but performance matters most to me. Others I have but don't make the list because I haven't retro-fitted them to other cars are Athearn and Atlas. These wheels I'm talking about come standard with the current Ready to Roll, Genesis and Atlas cars. 1. Athearn Genesis wheels and trucks (which really are one component -- the wheels only fit these sideframes) are definitely the best wheels I've seen come standard on any kit. If I have the money, these trucks would be fit to every piece of rolling stock I own. Perfect in appearance and smooth rolling, I haven't had them long enough to give a durability report, but they seem to be holding up. 2. Athearn Ready to Roll wheels are nice ordinary metal wheels. I haven't really tested them, but they look okay. 3. Atlas wheels found on their wide vision caboose and their 33,000 gal. tank cars are great performers, but look terrible. I can't stand the face of these wheels. The tank's wheels will be replaced as soon as I can afford it. The "open" end doesn't leave much room for a wheel with a poor appearance. However, under a caboose they are much less offensive, although the face is still very visible. Sure they're ugly, but worse are the 200 or so axles of plastic wheels yet to be replaced! Anyway, that's my experience. If anyone can give me some experiences with Reboxx wheels, I'd love to hear them. RC Harris Roanoke, Texas
Chuck, Sent you an e-mail. Let me know what I owe in shiping! I'll let you know when it arrives, and when I get my next pay, It will be in the mail! THANKS! RC, WELCOME ABOARD! I hope you enjoy trainboard as much as the rest of us! Feel free to ask questions on things that may have you puzzled etc... I'm sure one of us can help with answers.... [ 14. September 2002, 12:27: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
RC, that's a great analysis & welcome. We should all hit the print key & save this one. On the IM's have you ever made a comparison performance between the ball bearing & non?
Originally posted by RC/ProtoModel Discount Trains: Bingo. That seems to be what I am experiencing here on my layout and the "source of woes" that started this thread! -Kitbash
I have no experience with the ball bearing wheel sets. They seem kind of cheesy to me. Besides, the standard IM wheels are fantastic, so I never considered straying. You know, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." RC
I've been meaning to get a Reboxx tool for months and this thread finally kicked me into action. The Reboxx website doesn't actually seem to 'sell' the thing, so I put Reboxx into Google to see who did. Found Flying Scotsman Hobbies in NY State ( http://www.fshobby.com/ ) FSH do the Tool for $7.96. They also have Reboxx wheels and a "33 inch Test kit" (contains 10 different axle lengths for you to experiment with) for $6.00. Carriage is normally $4 in the US, and at cost abroad, so I took a chance that it might be $6..8 and ordered a Tool + a Test kit. Got an e-mail the next morning from FSH: "Thanks for your Reboxx order. The items are in stock, and will ship tomorrow by Air Letter Post. Because this is a small package, the shipping will only be $2.40, actual cost." I'm wagging both tails now
I don't do any yard switching or spotting but other modelers do and perhaps for control the KD works better. Myself, I'm for free rolling ability and thats the reason for my up-grade from Walthers Budd sets to IM ball bearings. At the time I couldn't get the 36" non BBs so I opted for the BBs and they are PRICEY. so I will never know the answer to the Non BB versus the BB. My learning experience in this conversion from Walthers stock to IMs is I can't use the optional light bar with IMs since the Walthers budd cars pick up electrical current from both rails and their axle is plastic. The IMs are 100% metal ! OUCH! As John Patton would say" Happyrailroading".
I have one train set, My home designed/built maintenance train that a few has seen, in person and on VHS tape, I'm working on changing all the old talgo trucks to Athearn frames, and Proto 2000 wheelsets, for free rolling. Being that train at shows I run as one long 30 car train, it has to roll as free as possible with some of the weight issues with it! And not so much that. But its growing! I got 8 to 10 cars waiting to be finished, painted/decaled, custom detailed, etc to add to it... On the heavier cars, I been adding sprung equalized trucks to bear the weight, and track well and not have so much vibration.... Which, I've noticed it sure done the trick to eliminate the vibrating, and wobble. On the lighter cars I use rigid Athearn trucks, and wheels, and other other have the old TYCO, Bachmann, Life Like talgo trucks with plastic wheels and axles... And does roll to freely so. I think to convert them to Athearn frames and Proto wheelsets will be more then enough to get the free rolling I want. Over time, I'll get this train done, and may even start on my coal drags to convert them. But being that train isn't heavy, I'll get the heavy weight done (MOW) and then start on the others as time progresses....
I've bought both the P2K and Reboxx wheelsets, and for my money the Reboxxes are very close to scale- compared to a Reboxx, the P2K wheels look almost toylike due to their tread width. I still use those, though. On the club layout, cars I've equipped with Reboxx wheels track very well. Also, there are several different lengths of axles in the Reboxx line- best bet is to go to the website & see which one you need for which car. They have 33" and 36" wheels. Reboxx site Hope this helps. Highball, y'all! [ 16. September 2002, 02:22: Message edited by: friscobob ]
