A while back I had asked a similar question so my apologies if I am doubling back. This year I will be releasing a new storage box for HO. I currently have a complete line of N-scale boxes for a variety of cars/trains. If you would like to see them take a look at them here. www.high-iron.com My question to all you board members is what types of trains would you like to store and/or transport. Are they pretty much the same as N-scale or due to size is there limits, for instance Autoracks. Let me know. So many times I see posts for what manufacturers should make next so I am trying to step first and ask. The boxes will be bi-level with foam trays holding 20-30 cars and will have a handle for easy transport. Something the N-scale boxes lack. Thanks for all your help. I hope your help will be the start of a successful HO product line.
Hi there Bryan, in our group, when we travel to shows we have a need to transport up to 14 16-18' long trains, plus loco's and spares, *lots* of rolling stock. Unfortunately it's mostly "un-alike" stock, not block trains. Depending on the era we are running it could be anything from mixed 40'/50' boxes, flats, gons and 8000k tanks right up through passenger cars, autoracks, double stacks and spine cars. Currently we mainly use a home-made system of converted box-files for transporting stock, these stack in apple boxes fairly successfully. I do have one of the PPW-Aline hobby-totes on test though, and I like it so far, although I think it will waste space if you are transporting passenger cars or 89' flat/autoracks. I would suggest one to fit the nice new Walthers passenger cars would be an idea. BTW, I think a couple of the "mouse-over" bits on your website have got swapped, one of them is the center-beam flat insert...
Thanks for the info on the web mistake I will get it taken care of. I think the Walthers Passenger train would be a good idea. I have had good luck with my N-scale SuperChief box and would love to get more classic passenger train themed boxes. I know a lot of clubs use different types of systems, mostly home made and they probably work best for those who build them. This is simply and alternative. One of the things I have tried to give my products is flexibility. With two layers you can mix and match different trays to your needs. Thanks again for your input.
A good start might be one for the Walthers Super Chief set, as they are marketing it as a fixed train formation as a subscription scheme, so I would think there will be a fair few folk with the same (or similar) formation trains. Would 8+ cars plus an ABBA set of F's fit in your proposed box design?
Great idea Bryan, as long as I can get hold of some in the UK. I currently use box files with card inserts and padding to transport stock and locos to exhibitions, rather than carry loads of Blue Boxes, etc. However, whilst the freight boxes are OK, the combined weight of 4 or 5 locos in 1 box tends to make the bottom of the box bow, even if I glue the card inserts down for added strength. A 'generic' box with adjustable inserts/spacers, to allow me to pack different sized locos in the same box, with sufficient strength in the base so that the base doesnt bend, would be a great start for me. Furthermore, if you have an index card on the top/side to enable me to write on what is inside (perhaps inserted into a plastic wallet, so it can be replaced as required) would also help. Lastly, try and keep the price affordable. I notice your N gauge boxes are reasonably priced. I'd rather have a cheaper box than a more expensive one with a pretty picture on the top. Hope this gives some assistance. Jon
I too have a mixed bag to store, though it is all freight. My 'show' train that I actually take places has two locos, 4 d/stacks, 4 autoracks and 2 long cushioned boxcars. So in addition to any standard boxes, I'd suggest a box with slots for 89ft flatcars, but with the area 'above' made up of part cut cubes (say sugar lump size) that can be torn out to make a shaped opening. Or maybe just make the whole infill like that, so it is fully configurable.
Is it just a coincidence that the Brits are answering the call on stockboxes, or is it something more........... Jon
Cultural differences? I think (and i'm making a *big* generalisation here!) the UK modelling scene has tended to be club and show based, with more portable layouts, whilst the US scene has tended to home-based layouts (with the exception of the modular crowd.) Therefore more need to transport more of your stock more often maybe? I think trends from both sides of the Atlantic are rubbing off in both directions though, or maybe the magazines over here are just getting better at covering home-based layouts!
Good point Martin. It would take me the best part of Sunday afternoon to pack all the stock up into the correctly labelled individual box, without having to operate the layout as well. (not that you get a suitable box with most British kits anyway) ...and why is it that the last wagon needed to fill a boxfile is at the wrong end of the layout? Jon
Heheh! Either that, or you have something left over that you can't quite work out how you got there, or an empty space that leaves you wondering wether you just packed it better, or you left something sat on the layout!
I know exactly what you mean, Martyn. I found some shots of stockboxes 'in action' and seeing as I can post pics now, here they are. this is from Wigan, just before Christmas, hence the silly string of lights along the fascia. This is from Hull in November Finally those collapsible curvers are chock full of stock, and therein lies our problem Jon [ 25. January 2004, 10:51: Message edited by: Jon Grant ]
First off, Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Looks like there is interest across the "pond" for these, that is great! I have sold my N-scale boxes around the world via e-bay and the web so the more the better. I just received my prototype box this week. It is awesome, but to an N-scaler like me it is also HUGE! Guys listen to the dimensions and give me your thoughts. 24" inches wide by 18" deep by 5.5" tall. Is this too big? The handle on it works great and after I get my foam prototypes in I think it will hold a lot of cars. Seems to carry nicely. I would compare it to a medium size suitcase. Give me more feed back on the size. I don't know a weight yet since I don't have the foam but depending on locomotives or just rolling stock it could get heavy. This is all part of the process of product development. I haven't got any numbers yet so I am clueless on pricing so far. Thanks again,
From the dimensions given, it sounds like you have an ideal sized box for 'O' scalers, if you use a single foam tray, or HO with 2 foam trays. Ideally for me the maximum size of the box is governed by the internal dimensions of a curver box, or similar container, which can be easily transported in a van, without sliding all over. The size of the box mentioned would be too big for those sold in DIY/hardware stores, but would fit in a bread crate, if you can find them. Could you let us know the internal dimensions as well as the outside ones. Do you intend having 2 pre-cut foam trays as in your N gauge examples, bearing in mind the weight difference between N and HO, especially when freight cars are weighted to NMRA standards. this would make it difficult to remove the top tray without emptying it, unless there was a rigid base to the foam. Finally, do you intend having pre-cut holes in the foam for different types of cars, so that only one type of loco/car/coach would fit in each slot. I for one would prefer a 'generic' box where I could mix and match stock, even to the point where 1 box held a loco, some low cars(flats, gons), some long cars, a couple of high-cubes and a caboose- ie a whole train of mixed freight in one box. It would be a nightmare trying to pack up at a show, if I had to find exactly the right car to fit in the right slot. Just some suggestions - consider making the boxes small enough to fit in a readily available curver-style stacking box. - make the box low enough for one tray of stock only, rather than 2, unless the top layer of foam has a rigid base - allow the user to alter the size of the slots. This could be achieved by making an initial slot large enough for a large loco or freight car and provide some foam packers so that the size of the hole could be adjusted. It would certainly make manufacture easier. Feel free to use, abuse or ignore any of the aforementioned. Good luck with the idea, Jon.
Quick warning ref the curvers, I use these for US rolling stock, my "rough" (Athearn-ish) stuff packed loose between bubble wrap layers, which has always worked fine. I was moving some things around one day and lifted the curver of rolling stock with a boxfile of loco's rested on the contents. The weight was enough to shear all the side pieces holding the base on, at which point the curver emptied itself of stock, in the manner of a coal hopper... Needless to say, I was not a happy bunny! I now take a lot more care on how much I load in those, and if I do stack boxes on as well, they go across the top of the sides, and never added to the contents. Due to the contents being mostly robust old athearn stuff, most of it made it with an occasional scuff mark, but I had to repair a few stirrups & the like! Getting back on topic, Bryan, weight is definately something to consider. If you can find someone local who has something like a Proto SD60, two or three of them make a heavy box without anything else included!
Bryan, as someone who has spent MANY years transporting a LARGE amount of rolling stock to trains shows, I believe I have some worthwhile ideas to add coming from my experiences. I agree with many of the ideas mentioned above, but I also have some other thoughts. I mix-and-match much of my rolling stock, so I would think pre-set sizes to hold it would be detrimental. Like Martyn, I tried out the A-Line/PPW Hobby Totes. While they were not cheap, I had enough of spending the better part of a train show packing and unpacking rolling stock. I do like them as they are fairly durable and are certainly much easier than packing things into individual boxes. I don’t believe they are too much of a waste for 85’-89’ equipment (auto racks, pig flats, long passenger cars, etc.) The boxes have an inside length of roughly 27” so it’s only about 3 inches or so that’s wasted. I did get a little “crazy” and actually “plotted out” the best arrangement for my rolling stock. It is probably more than most people will want (or need) to do, but I have a large collection and efficiency was necessary to keep my costs down as much as possible. To make packing and tracking easier, I did make a label system on the boxes. I put a small label on the outside at the end of the box to tell what was in it (while I mix rolling stock, I do keep it in some basic groups) and I put a larger label inside to indicate what individual pieces went in each place (I generalize it by type, i.e. 50’ box car, 40’ tank car, etc., not by individual piece of equipment). These “labels” are actually removable tags inserted into clear plastic sheets attached to the box. On the outside I used roughly a 1 inch by 2 ½ inch size attached to the end, and I attached a 4 inch by 6 inch size to the inside of the lid. While there is that occasional issue of the car I want being on the other side of they layout, there is enough flexibility that I don’t run into that very often. I do feel the ability to label, and to CHANGE those labels, is an important consideration. I also believe that a longer box might be better, perhaps about 36-40”. Not only would that allow a third car of 89’ foot length, but it would also offer greater flexibility in cars of shorter lengths. Perhaps with an increased length, the boxes would be better to be skinnier (maybe 12”) to keep them manageable and to keep the weight down. I also agree with the single layer idea. With multiple layers, there is not only the risk of dumping the top layer, but I would just as soon not have to dig through one layer to get to rolling stock below. Personally, I also like the idea of different height boxes. A-Line has short and tall boxes; the tall ones are required for auto racks, high cubes and similar equipment, but would be a waste of space for most equipment, and a waste of storage space when stacking the boxes. My collection is large enough that I’m concerned more about stacking and loading it than I am carrying it. However, for most people the ability to carry it “like a suitcase” is probably very appealing and I think sounds like a good idea. Another idea is to make a small tote; something like a cardboard box with 3-5 drawers. You could put a handle on the entire tote and carry several “drawers”. This would be similar to A-Line’s tote system, but you could use drawers without lids and have easy access to several layers of equipment. I don’t know how feasible that would be weight-wise, but it might work. I apologize; I didn’t mean to be so long-winded, but I do think this product is badly needed, and I wanted to add my opinions. There are many modelers going to shows on this side of the “pond” too, but not very many options to transport rolling stock.
I myself, make my own boxes as well, to fit one full train per box. HOWEVER, I am stumped getting foam to line the boxes! (My supplier went out of business) so.... I would would be interested in buying the foam alone. My boxes hold up to 18 HO scale cars, up to 89 foot, with couplers. BUT, I'm not in this to sell them, these are for own use.... Would it be possible to buy the foam box linging separately?
Glad to get more input. Sounds like there is a need but maybe not for as large of a box as I have planned. (I am not 100% sold on that but that is what I am hearing). I haven't got any foam cut and cars in place to test but maybe weight will be a problem if I do a two layer system. I will have to see. One thing I have learned from the N-scale boxes is that although these have been custom cut for specific lenghts many different cars and configurations work. That is the main reason for the generic boxes. Just because a box is made for say a 50' box car, that still works for many other cars. I hope to offer the ability to ad foam or subtract for varying lengths but it hasn't been a problem so far. With coupler cut outs these seem to protect even if the cars are a little shorter than the space. I have seen the boxes with just long cut-outs to put lines of trains in. I have also heard many complaints about the cars banging together and damaging couplers. That is why I have designed them the way I did. As to the comments on the time it takes to place in and out of specific cut out boxes, I must say this. The protection the specific cut-outs provide is comparable to that provided by the original packaging. So there is time and hassle saved by providing this protection in one box. Especially in N-scale where most cars come in plastic jewel cases. But even in HO where most cars arrive in a small box with a lid or end flaps. It would take a considerable amount of time to repack all of those. These are just some thoughts as I continue to study this product. I hope to get more from you all and I promise to keep you updated as the project continues. Thanks again, Bryan
