GP38 Thoughts

Scott I am wondering if the Kato Gp38 is actually older than you.

 

Oh good one Ed! You just couldnt refrain yourself from such a dim witted reply could you? What is that supposed to mean anyway? That if someone is younger then you they obviously are now inferior or something? Come on, get a life.

Mike Antkowiak

 

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ed Pinkley#2:
Scott I am wondering if the Kato Gp38 is actually older than you.<hr></blockquote>

Nope, I'm 4 years older than it.

 

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by friscobob:


As to your rant about UP#1977, you're right- it's a GP38-2 number. My suggestion to you, should you buy one, is to remove the numbers and replace them with proper road numbers from a Microscale UP decal set. Make sure you check out a UP roster if you want it correct.
However, if you really want to split hairs, 1977 was ex-Katy- it wore red, then John Dere green. When UP (thru the MP, by then a phantom subsidiary) got the Katy, the locomotive went to UP. It was later sold/leased to Kiamichi RR as its 3814, and runs on the former Frisco A&A Sub in burgundy & white. Never saw Jenks blue.
Now Scott, you're not that far away from either Omaha or Lincoln, which both should have hobby shops. Why not go there & check your prospective purchases out in person, or get comments from others on their running ability and looks? Or even check out swap meets in towns not far from you (Omaha, Lincoln, Sioux City, etc)? In this society, there's no excuse not to be a smart consumer. Whether you buy the locomotives there at the shop or through mail order is up to you, but it helps to check 'em out first. That is responsibility as well.
<hr></blockquote>

Why does UP #1977 former paint schemes have anything to do with what I brought up?

Second, their are no decent hobby shops in Omaha or Sioux City. The one in Lincoln is overpriced and has a small selection of N scale.

 

What I am trying to get at is that when A new loco comes out Scott is all happy the thing is being made.Then when he gets one he totally bashes the thing like a little kid.I for one am not that happy with the new atlas engine.It doesn't pull like the old ones(but at least better than the sd35's).So now I have katos that I will run together, atlas engines that will run together and now a second set of atlas engines that I run together.I didn't get on here and put the thing down at all.I am just happy that atlas is trying to make a better engine.Maybe they will do some retooling and get the thing right.Rome wasn't built in a day.
Scott then starts saying things like kato never made a gp38.Well in my catalog it shows many pics of them.And the one I own will out pull any other Gp unit I own.It was a very good model and I am looking for a few more.
Constructivly criticizing a locomotive is one thing but this happens every time Scott gets a new engine from Atlas.If you don't like a product that is made by a manufacturer why keep on buying from them?

 

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ed Pinkley#2:

Scott then starts saying things like kato never made a gp38.Well in my catalog it shows many pics of them.And the one I own will out pull any other Gp unit I own.It was a very good model and I am looking for a few more.
<hr></blockquote>

Katos model is a GP38-2 as it has 5" radiator fan spacing and a sight glass window.

 

Gentlemen!!!! What happened to civility? You know the old expression "You catch more files with honey than you do with vinegar (or four letter words for excrement)". Well, you are also more likely to persuade someone to your way of thinking if you do not insult his intelligence or question his parentage. This discussion is beginning to sound like the war of the "river-counters" vs. the "nit-pickers". I see far more personal attacks and "oneupmanship" in this thread than information.

 

I, like others (as someone pointed out) enjoy a good debate, as long as things are kept civil. I appreciate everyone's efforts to do so, as the Moderators do NOT enjoy having to intervene.

I confess that I do not know hardly anything about the Union Pacific (but was fortunate enough to see a UP unit today ) but can offer a possibility as to why Atlas may have numbered a GP38 as a GP38-2. It COULD be a rebuilt GP38 that has been "classified" as a GP38-2, hence it has a number in the GP38-2 series. I know for a fact that CSX has many rebuilt SD40's that are classified as SD40-2's; externally, though, they appear as regular SD40's. Again, not to say that is the case with the UP unit, but it might be a possibility.

One final observation: I have only been in N scale for about 10 years, and am really thankful for the quality of models that are currently available. I have seen a lot of progress by the manufacturers (closed pilots, number boards numbered, etc.) in that time. I hope they are encouraged to keep delivering new products!

Harold

 

ok scott kato did what is printed on the side as a gp38/38-2 in other words it is to represent both versions right. therefore they did it wrong too. i'm not real sure how many REAL LOCOS you've been on but when i goto work on the ns everyday i see paint that sometimes a half inch thick on these things to cover up rust holes, maybe atlas is trying to be prototypical in this spot. not sure but this thread and all the other atlas/kato threads end like this and for some reason it always starts with some post from scott to cause a 3 alarmer to go. next your paint will peel off of them and it will start all over again.

 

<font color="336633">I'll stick to HO </font>

 

I'll just stick with Sn3. Sorry, could not resist

 

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by chessie:

I confess that I do not know hardly anything about the Union Pacific (but was fortunate enough to see a UP unit today ) but can offer a possibility as to why Atlas may have numbered a GP38 as a GP38-2. It COULD be a rebuilt GP38 that has been "classified" as a GP38-2, hence it has a number in the GP38-2 series. I know for a fact that CSX has many rebuilt SD40's that are classified as SD40-2's; externally, though, they appear as regular SD40's. Again, not to say that is the case with the UP unit, but it might be a possibility.

Harold<hr></blockquote>

#1977 is not a rebuilt unit. It is a true GP38-2.

 

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mopac3092:
ok scott kato did what is printed on the side as a gp38/38-2 in other words it is to represent both versions right. therefore they did it wrong too. i'm not real sure how many REAL LOCOS you've been on but when i goto work on the ns everyday i see paint that sometimes a half inch thick on these things to cover up rust holes, maybe atlas is trying to be prototypical in this spot. not sure but this thread and all the other atlas/kato threads end like this and for some reason it always starts with some post from scott to cause a 3 alarmer to go. next your paint will peel off of them and it will start all over again.<hr></blockquote>

Who said this was a Atlas/Kato discussion? I never brought Kato into this. We are talking about the Atlas GP38.

 

Scott, I understand your frustration with manufacturers in general, and the men who manage those companies. I have been in manufacturing over 50 years. No I am no longer a student, I'm retired now, and you learn a lot as you grow up.

I'll have to admit I thought I was an authority on things back when I was a student, even when I got into my 20's, then I began to mature and came to realize I was looking at things from different angles. Knowledge promotes understanding.

If you understand why Atlas does their model engines the way they do, you might not feel so frustrated with their advertizing and quality of products. It isn't the stupidity of the man, it is business requirements.

Try to put yourself in their place. You start a company to produce an engine for the toy market, (because it was a toy when they started out.) They spent thousands of dollars making the tooling to produce each part, so how many of those parts are they going to have to sell before they begin to make a profit they can live on and pay wages to all the employees? A BUNCH! Now add to that, they have to buy a box, lables, have instruction sheets printed, pay for adds in magazines, pay for insurance, pay for various licenses, and rent or build a building. OK they decide how many completed engines they have to make and sell just to break even. Back then each engine had to sell for $30.00 each!

Well how many engines are you Scott, going to buy from them of that particular model? Lets say you want two, but you want your engines to be the phase -2 of their engine. To satisfy you they would have to modify the original mold, or make another mold which is another several thousands of dollars. They can't afford it, so what do they do? They decide that since their products are made to be purchased for kids as a toy to play with, they will just change their lable to say "GP38 and GP38-2" and letter it for three or four most recognisable railroads, and the kids will never know the difference anyway. They have created two different engines for sale and only had to pay for a little printing. This is considered good management, because American business has to make a profit, or go out of business altogether.

Today models are expected to have greater detail. How do they do that? Well, they can go to the original mold and in some cases add certain details that make the engine look more like a model than like a toy. Now they can advertize the "New Improved" thingy and charge you more money for it, after all they have to pay for the modifications to their mold, and new adds, don't you see?

As long as they are the only dog on the block, you are going to have to deal with them, like it or not. But wait a minute! Here comes Kato, now Atlas has competition! Kato starts out spending the same kind of money on all the things I listed above, but they are now into the market that is not for toys anymore, they are into SCALE-like models! So they can afford to have a different mold than Atlas is still trying to pay for.

You gripe about the extra long flanges, (I have too)! Lionel started that because he had extremely tight radius curves, IT WAS A TOY! HO started out as a "better" TOY with 18" radius curves, but there was an improved track with a "large" 18" radius curve. (That would equal a 30" radius to a Lionel). With the 18" radius curve, HO did not have to have the TOY sized flange, so was now more SCALE sized, and ran well.

When N sized equipment came out, it was so light weight they had to go back to the TOY sized flanges just to keep it on the track with 9" radius curves (Half of HO), because N was made for kids to play with as a TOY! It was already tooled up and millions of parts were made before N SIZE caught on and made N SCALE desirable.

Now what can the manufacturers do? They can't afford to scrap all their tooling, and parts. So they keep the flanges, improve the track, and add various paint schemes, and go up on price again. Its pure business, see?

Very few people want to put a kit together and add such details as they like, so kits went off of the market. People wanted something that would run right out of the box. So the companies said, OK, we'll give it to you, but you are going to have to pay for it. AND YOU DO!

What you may not have understood, is that to the adult business world, the managment of All these companies like Atlas are considered shrewd business men! You only represent 2 sales out of the BUNCHES they count on to stay in business, as do we all on an individual basis.

Now you know just a little about why the engine you don't like, is the one you go ahead and buy.

You can rant and rave (as I did too), and it isn't going to do anything but vent your anger.

If on the other hand, you would start a letter writing group to put down on paper exactly what it is about a particular engine you want changed, you might get it changed if enough people will write in for you, see? You can't bawl him out about being stupid, because although you may think so, that will only make him ignore you. That is the way we all feel.

If I had written you and said, Hey you stupid bum etc... you would have been incensed and thrown rocks back at me, and we would have forgotten what we were talking about in the first place.

Little boys do that because they haven't matured to learn courtesy, tact, and decorum in dealing with the business world. Men like you and I handle these things differently when we understand what the manufacturer is up against.

Try writing them a short factual business like letter about your complaints and offer them a solution, see if they have any comment. You might find out they are willing to discuss your ideas with you, or let you know they are coming out with just what you want. See?

We still pals? OK!

 

How about a shot or two of a GP38, the real thing? This is an old Conrail with faded "Operation Lifesaver" logo, on its way west. My guess is its going for re-painting, or maybe for storage, they wouldn't stop to be asked. The light was crummy and due to some wires it isn't a really good set of photos. I don't expect this one will be seen too many more times. Notice that this one doesn't have dynamic brakes. Maybe one of you can explain how it missed getting them, or how they happened to be removed. When you look inside as it goes under the bridge you can see that it is equipped with dual control stands, I guess so it could run either direction as a leader. Kind of an oddball. Is this the one you are complaining about, anyone got any info on it?
OOPS! I forgot to post the photos!



SORRY ABOUT THAT !

[ 05 August 2001: Message edited by: watash ]</p>

 

Did I buy any Atlas GP38's? Yes....FIVE. Do I find them to be a bad purchase? No...not in the least. Are they 100% accurate? No, GM&O didn't have plows, but Atlas kindly sent a pair of running boards for me to put on. How sweet is that? Anyway, it is beyond me why some folks here have to "DEBATE" and not "discuss" the pros and cons of any given product. I've worked the three "R's" all my life, Resturants, Radio and Retail, and truely I say to ALL of you out there. If you don't like something...don't eat it, turn it off or don't buy it. It makes life more simple...

Now, let's get back to the "discussion", not the "debate".

 

Watash. I believe that the ex Conrail, non-dynamic brake GP-38's are from the old Durham & Southern R.R. I can't remember how many they got from them but it wasn't that many. I was tempted to order an undec non dynamic brake Atlas GP-38 to model as CSX but didn't as I think NS got them all and will probably retire them.