I always say that I will go dcc when they offer drop in decoders. Well, soon they will offer drop in decoders for the GP35 and SD70, and I dont even know a lick of dcc. Do any of you guys who run dcc have any advice for a novice going into dcc. I want to make a intelligent decision, and not make a guess on dcc.
I second the motion! Loco-MOTION that is! Hah! I am as DCC illiterate as they come! How about it. Anyone want to step up to the plate and do the Layman's discussion of DCC operations? Remember, the key word is Layman's, meaning easy and simple enough a 4th grader could understand! :teeth: Hobo Tim
i'm as "layman" as they come, since i researched the topic and bought a DCC system (entry level Digitrax - Zephyr), but i have yet to finish my layout and do the "hook-up". DCC is much simpler than the conventional "block" system we've been required to use. having said that, some blocks in a layout are helpful as they can isolate sections of the layout and make problems easier to diagnose. i know robert ray and others will get in here and give us the real deal, but for us beginners two things, at least, must be decided: 1) that the risk of a short occurring can (will?) fry the locomotives on the rails (you're running 14-18 volts through the track at all times, and the decoder is the ONLY thing regulating how much of that power is delivered to your engines). and 2) if you can solder. this is not so important with drop in decoders, but not everything you will want to run will have drop-in decoders. there's a significant cost to the systems and buying decoders is one ($16-$40 a pop, depending on what you buy -- and in Z we'll be buying the smallest and most elegant). but the fun of running trains afterwards is magnified 10x. that's all i know about that. dave f. P.S. i chose the Digitrax Zephyr because it's basic to start off with (with all the bells and whistles -- literally) but can be upgraded easily and expanded -- which is not true with ALL the other systems out there.
So, what do I get with the system, and how much should I expect to pay. I dont want to go into a hobby shop and say, give me a DCC.
I suggest that you do some research on DCC systems to see whats available and what system might suit your needs. You just don't walk into a hobby shop and ask them to sell you a DCC ssystem. Here is a comparison chart of DCC systems. This will start you off in the right direction. http://tonystrains.com/productcompare/dcccomparison.htm By the way Tony's Trains is one of the leading etailers that sells and services all types of DCC systems, decoders, etc. etc. Ther is alot of good info on that site. They are very knowledgeable in DCC and all it's applications in all scales. Have fun... Stay cool and run steam....
For starter home systems I like both the Digitrax Zephyr and NCE Power Cab. I have done DCC clinics at NMRA meets using the Zephyr connected up to a computer and used Decoder Pro to program and run trains. It's easy and fun. I have not used the NCE Power Cab, but I have 2 NCE Wireles DCC setups, one for my N layout and one for my Z modules. The Power Cab operates the same as the NCE Procab, but my procabs are wireless. Wiring in decoders is a real drag, and DCC is finicky at best with Z Scale, but I like it anyways as it give me something to fiddle with. Why finicky? I don't know for sure but it might be because I run at 9 or 10 volts, and some decoders might not be happy with that. You can run at 12 volts if you turn down the maximum voltage when programming the decoder. It's safer if you buy a decoder programmer and hook your decoders up to it, then program then before installing them. Set your maximum speed to a number like 200 instead of 255 in the decoder, and you won't have to worry about burning up a motor. The new drop in decoders will make things easier for install, but probably won't show before the end of the year, so I will still continue with wired decoders for now. Besides, i have about 25 of them on hand waiting for time to install them. Dcc is a personal prefrence, and to tell you the truth, they all work well. Some do more than others, but they all work well enough, so you can choose your favorite. Just like cars, some like Volvo as a safe choice (Lenz) and some like Rolls Royce luxury (ZIMO), and others like Chevy (Digitrax) or Ford (NCE). If you live in Texas, you will probably buy EZ-DCC, as you don't need any Yankee gear in your garage, (Spits some chaw on the floor, grimaces with authority) haha!
Yep DCC is the way to go, being able to run multiple trains in any direction at any speed with literaly 2 wires to the track (but you obviuosly need many parallel feeders, as with plain DC). But I have to add that you can: turn the lights on and off, have special lighting effects (Forward, reverse and speed sensitive, dimming, ditch lights, etc.) and sound (although it is a bit weak to put in a car and the power pickup is a real challenge - put it under the layout hooked up to an audio amp). Starter systems: See the Tony's site referenced above but many of the starter sets, like the NCE PowerCab have all the DCC power stuff you need. Hook it to the tracks. Then you need loco decoders. These all have to be soldered in for now, some are easy (Marklin F7) and some are a . . . . $30-$60 each. I've had the best luck with the Lenz Gold Mini and new NCE Z14. The Digitrax DZ143 has given me a lot of problems but that may be due to lower voltage in Z (as Robert says) and these are at least 5 yr old decoder design so maybe something there. As David says, this is essentially a high power system and a derailed loco (or metal wheel set) can easily dump 5 amps of power (@ Z rated 10v, that's 50 watts, about 2-3x what your soldering iron heats up to) so you must keep an eye on things. One way to help that is to use electronic circuit breakers that limit the current but none 'crowbar', that is immediately shut down 'forever', requiring a reset. They simply keep pulsing, 'checking' with short power bursts. You can still fry an engine wheel set. You change change the current sense resistor in the NCE model EB3 or Tony's Power Shields to scale the 2.3A minimum to a more reasonable 0.5A (that's still 5 watts, a nite light bulb's heat). All in all, you'l never go back. And on the Z-Bend modules, we run DCC on the inside where on our modules, we have many turnouts so that we can do passing lanes, Wye's, etc. and plain DC on the outside so anyone can run. The modules are wired so that any Z-Bend module can connect to us and enjoy DCC together. On large mutil-module layouts, DCC is a must so you can run several trains at once.
Thank you guys. You'r being very helpful. I just have a few questions. 1. what is a cab 2. Digitrax doesn't support direct programming. Its that a problem. 3. can I run a mu with a SD70 with a GP35. 4. which is a better choice. Digitrax or NCE. Thank you again.
The cab is the thing in you hand for controlling the trains. I don't know what dirrect programming is, but, I have used Digitrax Zephyr to program with Decoder Pro, and that works ok. Digitrax works fine, but I don't like the tiny little buttons. I like the Procab buttons, display, and the encoder speed controller, as it'e easy one hand operation without looking. You might be able to MU a GP with an SD, but programming a matching speed table will take a bit of trial and error work. Which is better Digitrax or NCE? Who knows. Which is better, Chevy or Ford? I Like NCE best, but members of our modular club have NCE, Digitrax, and Atlas. We use NCE at the shows, because 3 guys have NCE and there are 4 Procabs total available, 3 of them wireless.
Next question from a DCC illiterate who evetually wants to run his SD70M's with something else (can't without DCC because, whether you like the slow speed or not, it is nowhere close to anything else in Z). Are there any compatibility issues with say a Digitrax system talking to NCE decoders for example (or NCE talking to Digitrax decoders, etc)? Thanks, Randy
I assume the Direct Programming is Programming on the Main. To program the decoders, you usually do it under low power on an isolated track. Some systems, like NCE, can Program on the Main which is the running track. The reason for this is that you can't run or test the lights, etc. on the Programming Track, only program (reason: low power = safe). You then have to put it on the Main track, switch the Cab to the main (you push a few buttons) and try it. Don't like it? then you have to put it back on the programming track. That is why later (newer) systems like the NCE allow you to Program on the Main so that you can dynamically change that lighting function or the speed table, etc. As Rob says, the cab is a hand-held control, whether corded or wireless. Smaller layouts corded is OK but for larger layouts, wireless is nice (you can follow your train, etc.) NCE has a nice display, Lenz too. Others do not have displays or literally use a 900MHz cordless phone. Either corded or not, the keypads vary. I don't like the tiny buttons on the Digitrax but they are labeled a bit more than the NCE. The NCE buttons are bigger, lower and softer. Lenz is not bad either. MU's - DC or DCC, if they don't run at the same speed (e.g. SD70 and GP) then only DCC is your answer. You can do a three point speed table to make one (or more) match another or, you can do all 28 values Compatibility: generally everything works with others, even Consists as they are programmed into the decoder. All you need to know it the address for the Consist (always a low # 1-127). Some decoders or systems a 1, 2 or a few "proprietary" features but every one is supposed to be NMRA DCC std but that, like the Bible, has different interpretations.
