My layout is DC, but a club I may join for TTrak uses DCC. If I buy a DCC locomotive, will it damage it if I run it on my home layout as well? And will it affect it in the future then running it on the DCC layout?
This is a tricky one. Short answer is no, you won’t have any issues and your DCC locomotive will run just fine on a DC layout. The catch is some older early 2000’s decoders were not dual mode so those will not be happy. Stick with newer stuff and you are golden. oh, and some manufacturers will disable analog running from the factory, but you can enable it with JMRI or sometimes they will give instructions with the loco on how.
That's a tricky one as Massey points out..........Model Power closed it's doors back in 2014, and it's line of products were picked up by MRC. The locos were still sold under the Model Power label, but MRC upgraded a lot of things before they re-released them. I have a Mikado from that time period and it will not run on DC......might just be mine, but MRC decoders have never been considered to be the best (servicable, but not top line) so it's very likely they weren't dual mode. For whatever reason, I haven't seen any MRC/Model Power n scale releases for quite some time although they still release decoders and command systems for DCC. So you have a 50/50 shot at whether the Pacific will be dual mode.........depending on the vintage, the original Model Power releases did not have traction tires so there's another 50/50 shot. They were not good pullers without the tires.
Do you have the loco now or are you considering buying one? I'd take a look at Spookshow's review and see if you can determine what you have or what you might be buying..... http://www.spookshow.net/loco/mp462.html Looks like the DCC one might not be hard to change decoders if needed but 'not hard' is hard to define. Easy if you've done some of these. More daunting if this would be the first one. Cost wise a non-sound decoder would be in the $28-$33 range such as this ESU LokPilot that can run on DC... https://sbs4dcc.com/products/esu-59810-lokpilot-5-micro-multi-protocol-dcc-mm-sx-m4-decoder-nem652-8-pin-wired-plug.html Some of the new decoders are DCC only so be sure and check to see if the DC option is available. I'd probably use the one in the link above if it was me. Sumner
I have no idea what kind of decoder is in the potential buy one. If I do go this route, I am betting on Murphy to show up, so I will be prepared. I have never done anything like this, so I would probably be as confused as a frog in a blender...
A frog is only confused in a blender for a split second… not that I have first hand experience here, just a thought experiment… back to trains. So the majority of modern decoders are dual mode. I like Digitrax decoders for most of my stuff with a few TCS thrown in for good measure and both of those brands have dual modes by default. Depending on the design of the locomotive (I do not have intimate knowledge of this model) decoders can be as simple as a drop in or the more difficult hardwired installation. That being said even a hardwire installation isn’t really all that difficult as 99% of all decoders use the same color codes for their wiring. Orange/Grey: Motor leads Red/Black: Track pickups Blue: lighting common - White/Yellow: Lighting + front and rear (have to look up which is which can’t remember off the top of my head) Now there is a standard for which color is used for which rail (red/black) but in all honestly it doesn’t really matter which is left or right, the locomotive will still receive the signals and all will be right in the world. The motor wires kinda matter. By kinda I mean the motor will not care, but this will affect the direction of travel, but then again that doesn’t matter either as it can be changed in programming. The lighting is like the motor as well but I do try to get those correct as it makes the programming a bit less complicated, but they can be reversed as needed too. When it comes to programming I have moved away from the throttle and remembering which CVs do what and what value makes them do this or that. I program almost exclusively on JMRI now and I have been far happier and far less stress as you can “see” what you are doing in a graphical sense rather than some hexadecimal value that for most of us means nothing.
The less painful route to go may be to pick up a Pacific from BLI, their P4 does ok on DC is what I hear. Or, keep that option in the back of your head for the time when the Model Power conversion goes south, if it does. My only other input id that the Model Power Pacific has a noisy mechanism, but the later MRC ones may be quieter.
Or, if you distrust BLI's Paragon series decoders, buy the silent version and add your own decoder (sound or no sound). I heard their locos are pretty good. It's just the Paragons.
As I too do not have direct install experience, have done some research for upgrading existing DCC in a Bachmann GP7 and installing decoder in a DC Atlas VO1000. Another aspect to consider is the mechanical fitting. As indicated by earlier posts the wiring is fairly straight forward in terms of the electrical part for installation eg. wiring color code. Replacement Decoder dimensions, location and whether drilling/milling is sometimes necessary and if you need to buy LEDs, taps and other mechanical tools necessary to install. Sometimes a drop in decoder, if available for your model, can be cheaper in long run considering cost, time and the extra skills, tools and materials needed to install. Kapton tape is sometimes needed too. I don't have a lot of mechanical skills and tools. @Sumner webpage has good info and reference to other websites. It has been a great help in getting a sense of installation methods. I'd recommend taking a look. https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/Decoder-1/Decoders-Index.html The DZ126T ($27) and LokPilot 5 ($33) are among the smallest wired in decoders which will most likely fit with no milling or modification. If you have or plan on buying ESU sound or non-sound decoder based locos, an added benefit if you consist, is to select the LokPilot 5 micro which simplifies the consisting, and its only a few dollars more. So, for example, on the VO, the TCS drop in decoder is available but sells for 2x the price of a LokPilot however some extra tools and support parts like LEDs are needed for the LokPilot or any other wired in decoder. Haven't made decision on this one... Especially since Atlas is releasing the S2 with LokSound. There is no drop in decoder for GP7 and so at a minimum need drill tap/handle for attaching power wires for the decoder. As a side bar, haven't looked closely at the VO motor, but each terminal on the Bachmann motor is either labeled + so that matching the decoder orange + wire to the motor + or decoder grey to motor - . A trial attempt in making a .04" styrene "decoder" holder and use the existing decoder brackets to hold and force contacts for connect power rather than tapping and using small screws to attach rail power to decoder. While it would be easier to drill, just having a little fun trying to devise a way to avoid. If I was in the hobby longer with at least a half dozen DC locos or more to upgrade, or even a have a few to upgrade because of sentimental reasons, or there were older DC or DCC locos that I wanted to add to the "fleet" would buy the tools and supplies and go with LokPilots or LokSounds.
Interesting, post some more info if you go that route. I've only started drilling and taping screw holes for some of my installs but if you aren't strapped for room (using a non-sound) It is usually pretty easy to.... https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/Decoder-1/page-1.html .... use the existing light board (especially if there is a front and rear one) for the power pickup or make a smaller one like above. Need to cut a couple traces but lots of info on that out there. Also if you want you can use the LEDs on the light board for the DCC install also in a lot of cases if you want. Sumner
I would seriously consider a Bachmann 70 tonner. One of the Bmann's better offerings and their dual mode decoder works well on DC as well as DCC. I would shy away from the steamer you are looking at. The electrical pick up is designed lousy and hard to work on..
Wanted to initially mount decoder underneath styrene holder but as can be seen, a penny (1.52mm) creates a little "bulge". Actually, this wouldn't be so bad as it could help keep contacts against top of frame but a LokPilot at 2.4mm would add about another 32nd of inch, probably too much bulge so decoder has to fit on topside. In view of that, either mount on top with custom contacts secured to styrene or removing all OEM decoder components except pickup contacts and LEDs, and mount LokPilot on top similar to the technique suggested in your post. Since it originally is DCC, the motor is already isolated but having many more components than an analog board, makes removal more time consuming.
You might enquire whether the club's dcc system has the ability to run dc locos via address 0 on the throttle. This mode, on supporting dcc systems, creates a dc bias on the dcc signal that can allow running dc locos on dcc tracks. Throttles can change the dc bias (and therefore the speed of dc locos) via loco address 0.
It should also be mentioned to NOT let a DC locomotive sit idle on a DCC track. When done be sure to remove the DC locomotive from the DCC track.
And if the DC locomotive has incandescent bulbs for lighting be EXTRA careful! I've had the bulbs in a couple of DC locomotives get hot enough to warp the shell right above the bulb while running on DCC. LED lighting handles the extra voltage just fine, but bulbs get HOT!
