Before I read the Site Statement posts, I stopped by the Atlas booth at Chantilly and introduced myself to Paul Graf. my specific intention was to ask him about the Atlas Forums, "WHY BOTHER?" I told him that when they closed their forum a lot of posters (including me) came to Trainboard. after initial service problems because of the increased traffic, Trainboard now has a great service. his distressing answer was that he had NO IDEA what Trainboard was, and mentioned several other forums that were clearly incompetent in providing the service the Atlas forum members desired. the impression he gave me was that he thought the Atlas Forums were needed, because there were no alternatives. he also had no idea that Railimages was part of Trainboard. that is clearly absurd. I think Trainboard does a great job. also, Trainboard MUST be responsive to its users and cannot do the arbitrary things that the Atlas Forums have done in the past, such as closing without warning or real reason, and deleting all past posts for no good reason, since you MUST have a satisfied users group. we modelers accumulate data in our forum posts, and these past years on Atlas have been lost. I download all the messages from a lot of the Yahoo Groups onto my laptop just so that I will have a searchable database for questions. I have searched Trainboard, and that doesn't seem to be the case - all past posts seem accessible. I also think that when a manufacturer runs a forum, a lot of things don't get said that should be. I personnally do not think their new mogul is very good, but it sure got no slams on the Atlas board. also, frank discussions about other manufacturers are also not really happening, sort of like talking politics in the old USSR - you can say it, but you better not. finally, discussions about certain posts on Ebay are really part of the hobby, and shouldn't be prohibited entirely. finally, I think Atlas makes some Atlas forum members unhappy with Atlas by some of their moderating/editing on the forum. and since Paul says they are going to be MUCH stricter when they return, it may happen with more people. I would hate to see Atlas actually lose business because of the forum.... I have put my money where my mouth is with Railimages, and will do so for Trainboard if needed. I think some of your complainers should be forced to do the same thing. and I do think that you should prohibit posts to the Atlas Forum from Rainlimages, at least by those who are not contributing financially to Railimages. the Atlas Forum was clearly necessary earlier, but I do not think it is necessary now. I would hope that Trainboard users would contact Mr. Graf and explain what Trainboard is and how much service Trainboard is providing. I would hate to see a lot of the traffic return to the Atlas forum. and do they really want the extra work of moderating the forum? Michael P.S. I posted this first early Monday morning, and then deleted it to think some more about it. I asked myself, why do I care what the Atlas forum does? 1. we are building an archive of how we do things in the hobby with the forum posts, and for Atlas to just delete past threads, or even make them unavailable for many months, does not contribute to our technology library. I think newbies in 10 years should be able to look in the archives and find out how to put MT couplers on a Bachperson Consul. this cannot happen unless the archives are cared for. Therefor, I don't think useful info should be posted on the Atlas board, but if there are a lot of users, it will be, and it may be lost. 2. On a personal level, I think Atlas is arrogant. we get free use of the forum but they get to withdraw it whenever they wish, without warning. sounds like we are beggars looking for a handout. personally, I would rather pay for what I eat. wasn't anyone else bothered by this? Michael
I should comment here that Michael posted this earlier and decided to remove it to avoid controversy. I found this quite interesting and told Michael it was all right to post it. I realize that he is being complementary of TrainBoard over Atlas and I know that some folks disagree. As the last discussion on this digressed into a political discussion it was removed. People may comment on this but please, keep your comments thoughtful. We have always had what I thought was a good relationship with Atlas but maybe they don't even know we exist, although we are one of the oldest forums around. That happens I guess. Charlie
A rather interesting post, well thought out. I suppose I should be surprised that Paul Graf hasn't heard of Trainboard, but since he has a company to run, I guess I shouldn't be. The one thing Mr. Graf should know about the Atlas forum is that it's focused primarily (if not solely) on model railroading, whereas other forums (like TB) cover the range from model to full-size, railfanning, a place to post photos, etc. Admittedly, I know of no other manufacturers that offer a forum aside from Atlas, but the boys in New Jersey need to get out & surf the net a little- they'll find all sorts of fora, several of which even offer more than Atlas. And don't get me wrong, I post there now & then.
Well, I suppose that it is possible he wouldn't know of Trainboard. (One of the oldest and largest- Unknown to him?) But it still is quite surprising. If true. Then again he just might not want to acknowledge, due to feeling protective about perceived "competition." He certainly ought to know of RailImages. Boxcab E50
Very troublesome. I've retrieved a great deal of information from that database by using the search function. It's a shame that it's been tossed away like a useless rag! Thankfully TB is here.
Trainboard is hardly the atlas forum. Not even close for volume. And approaching Graf with that attitude may not have been the best way to start off. If you like it here so much, great. Stay here. But to expect Atlas to ditch their forum because of your perception of Trainboard would seem a bit far fetched. I know that Trainboard doesn't come close to doing [for me] what Atlas does, doesn't even come close to the Railwire for that matter. But I don't have a problem with Trainboard and enjoy stopping by. And I think you would find that by blocking Atlas from Railimages you would lose a huge amount of members. If you like it here, hang here. But the big board is the big daddy - and that is not going to happen here or anywhere else anytime soon. So let those who like it, enjoy it.
PS - has anyone CONFIRMED from Atlas that archived posts from the prior forum are going to vanish, or is this just a guessing game?
to be clear, I have no idea whether last years post to the Atlas Forum will disappear. however, I do know that such a disappearance DID happen in the past. in any case, they have effectively ALL disappeared for months!!! Paul did mention that he knew of Railwire but seemed as if he did not think it significant. Michael
BTW, I don't particularly have the hots for Trainboard, although I like it and am comfortable here. I have no relationship with Trainboard other than as a happy user. I never heard of Railwire until Mr. Graf mentioned it on Sunday, but I will surely touch base there too. My comments to Mr. Graf were more on the level "why bother" when other forums now cover the territory. he seems to treat the Atlas Forums as a chore not a joy.....but don't worry, he says his boss wants the Atlas Forums back up, so I guess you are safe. Michael
I was quite happy with the Atlas forum and the access and insights it gave to what manufacturers (Including IM and other competitors) were thinking. When the forum shut down without warning, I was surprised, and the extended time before it was "supposed" to be back to me is unprecedented for an "ongoing" resource. (Kinda like dirty track, I suppose, and who wants to run on THAT?). I was unaware of Trainboard at first too, but when I came across it and found many Atlas refugees, I settled in and have been happy since (well, as happy as one can be without an unlimited train budget!). I had no compelling reason to leave the Atlas form in the first place, and conversely, there is no compelling reason (at least so far) to go back, except ocassionally. Paula and Cory should know it is much harder to win customers back than it is to keep them in the first place. It'll be an up hill climb for the Atlas forum now, I'm afraid. (I...think..I...can,....I think...I can...). That said, they still make great products, and will get their fair share of may train $. Doug Stuard, Reston, VA [ 10. August 2004, 02:07: Message edited by: dstuard ]
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and certainly no one is forced to visit a particular forum. If you don't like Atlas forum, don't go when it comes back up.
I've been ehre at Trainboard exclusively since Trainboard practically started. I've dabbled a little over at TheGuage and checked into Atlas but Trainboard has pretty much been my home here. I've made a fool of myself here numerous times, then changed to this new ID and started fresh. I've enjoyed every moment I've been online here. I might dabble a little in Atlas forums just to see what happens, but this is my #1 stop. Everything I need is here. BTW......I don't mean to be nasty, but Atlas Forums SHOULD be blocked from RailImages. Trainboard owns and runs Railimages, so all image services should be in Trainboard only.
Ahhh... summer's drawing to a close, vacations and trade shows turning into photo albums and boxes, football season approaching - and time for the annual Board Wars! Despite the hot air, when all is said and done, all the boards will continue with the folks who enjoy that particular tone and flavor. And I'd venture to say most will read and post on several boards. Who drinks only Starbucks? In the end, we're all part of the hobby. Oh that's right, it is a hobby, isn't it? For the Atlas refugees heading for the door, thanks for stopping by See you there, and when you stop by again!
Well most know that I visit as post at the Atlas site and I do visit Railwire as well but my number one site is here. As for rail images we first used rail images to enable posting of images to trainboard, as long as donation come in then posting to other sites will remain as they are. however if finances were to run drive we probably would have to rethink that policy. It will be interesting to see what format the new Atlas takes? I for one will be going back there and see how it goes.
Of course he would know of Trainboard, he doesnt live in the clouds... It would be like Nissan denying faults "never heard of that before"...
If you are worried about previous content .. a bunch of it is archived at the internet archival project ... http://www.archive.org/
