I don't get any time in my days to check out the boards. I'm focused on finishing up a project right now that's taken 4 months to finish and after that I'll get some breathing room and much needed money. My friend is getting back on his feet and should be moved out soon. I have not even got to take a Z scale item out of a box since the start of the year and thats no fun. Thank you for understanding.
Yep, Eddie has been put through a lot of things we all don't happen to us, a lot more than you read here, and most of us are more than twice his age. He had hoped to escape to this weekend's 100th Anniversary of the Western Pacific (that's WP to us locals) but as you can tell, one day can make a huge difference in anyone's life. As this year finishes, I am sure that Eddie will be more amongst us We miss him too. .
Yeah, I was really hoping to make that event, but my car broke down about 30 minutes into my drive. I could have really used the escape.
Sorry to open this old Thread but Eddie doesen't answer my emails. He owns me 300$ prepayment and maybe some other guys here paid him also a prepayment. I've got many mails from Eddie where he try to explain his situation but after more then one year I think he is just lying because he don't return the money and also don't answer mails since many month. Anyone with the same experience?
HI Jurg, WB. The last I hear is he was in financial trouble. We all want the cars, but calling him out here is not going to help. I dont know what is the answer, but I do know getting upset about it is not going help. I learn from my past business dealings not to pay until the merchandise is ready. I got burn before by somebody I see all the time in California shows, but getting upset or calling somebody names is not going to help.
On That Note....... On that note, guess what!!! Yesterday I got the shpment of brass in. Third time's a charm!! Really, the brass handrails are ok. Now to finish up the castings. It's a matter of short time now. Will soon be contacting everyone on the original list. Have to find it first!!! Now where is it? Saw it last week! Oh, I know, it's in my container awaiting the trip back to Georgia. Heard 2 weeks left here!!! No promises but give me 30 day to try and get all of them out!!! THanks! Tim
John, it doesen't help anybody when his name is not named here. He still can do business with preypayment if nobody knows that he will not deliver or give the money back. I'm sure more people has paid him. BTW I gave him many chances in the past to contact me and to talk about his situation but he don't answer, so please don't blame me. best Jürg
I have no dib here! I don't have a say here as I am guilty of time and work getting the best of me. I do however let it be known that my work travels and I don't get the priviledge of the full capability of my work shop on the road. Believe me, I miss my work shop. It's been many months since I last saw it. Was June of 09 when I was last home. When a project is on hold till I get back home it pains me for it gives me a very bad reputation that I do not like! You can ask Jeffrey White how bad I feel that I still am working on the SD70ACe shells. He knows! As for Eddie Saber, I cannot answer for him. I don't know his situation. But I do know this, before he dabbled in Z I saw photos of his extensive collection of BNSF in HO I believe, WOW!!!! And from what he also mentioned once, he had a Dash9 in 1/8th scale, the kind you ride on. Never heard how much rollingstock he had, but if you thought Z scale was expensive, wait till you see the prices of these locos and cars!!! http://www.mountaincar.com/index.html (how many AZL brass locos can you buy compared to one of these?) I am only going by what I heard from Eddie. I don't know of his personal or financial situation, but Jurg is right. He should be updating his work progress. Either finish it and send or refund $$$$. I personally have stated many times in my SD70ACe updates that if you want a refund, then just let me know!!!! $40 is not going to break my bank! I know this don't amount to a hill of beans, just wanted to throw my 2 cents into this again! Hobo Tim
I had exactly the same problem a few years ago (with quite the same amount) with a guy named Alan Borg who was releasing kits of APL PS3 hoppers before AZL makes them RTR. I sent him a prepayment for 30 kits. Needless to say that if my credit card was charged I never saw any stuff coming, while the numerous mails I sent him were all unreplied. Anyway, that's the problem when working online: it's a question of confidence as there are mostly no regulations ruling the web business. But except with that guy, I mostly had no problems until then regarding online purchases. Sorry for bothering you with old ruminance, guys. Dom
Hi Dom, I too had a problem with Allan Borg, who proved to be a very dishonest man of ill repute. Those persons who misrepresent themselves in the hobby should be called out, identified and shamed so others can be warned and not fall victim to a con man.
I know you guys lost money, but there will be no bashing of other modelers in this board. There is no recourse when you paid your money in advance for product from individuals, and you have to cut your loses. Its similar to loaning money to friends, dont expect to see it back.
What a great surprise, I've get the whole money back from Eddie. I'm really happy that he is playing with open cards and I wish him the best for the future.
I think I know what happened, and only people like Allan Borg, Tim Buehring, Michael Hilliard, Eric Menzel, Joe D'Amato, Karin & Loren Snyder, and many others could truely understand... When you take on a project, it sounds easy, and it ususally is for one or 2 people. Then, all of a sudden you find yourself with LOTS of people who want in on the project. For them it's as easy as pressing a few quick paypal buttons on their keyboard, but for the guy doing the project, it's different. First, you all have to realize that we also have a day job, families, and the same after work obligations everyone else has. Now add project research, materials aquisition, construction, packaging, and shipping. Each take lots of time, but here's the killer: Construction. In the case of Eddie's project, 3 or 4 cars are fun, but 25 cars becomes a daunting task. First, he wanted to provide top quality work, so he discovered his first choice of decals did not come out acceptable. I offeed help with custom door panels and decals. Now I DID test build one of each of the 3 cars, and it took me a week or so to get all 3 done. The decals were a royal pain in the rear! The cars looked fantastic, but the time spent was daunting. I then handed over the detail parts and decals to Eddie. I would bet he looked over all the stuff, and realized it was a bit more work than he has time to do, thus turning a FUN project into a DAUNTING TASK! One that he fully intended to do, but geeZ, how do you get started. It's like looking at all the parts required to build a live steamer locomotive sitting on the floor, looking at your lathe and mill, and at the diagrams, and saying... Where do I start? I'm not in the mood for this today. It's hard to understand, from a purely purchasers point of view, the efforts that must go into a project, but you have to realize, that some fun simple projects grow into near unmanagable monster tasks real quick. There is NO WAY that I would have ever agreed to decal 25 BN boxcars, AFTER doing the 3 for myself! NO WAY AT ALL! Before I decaled them, I might have willingly agreed to do it, but after the first one, the project would be slow and purely miserable... Just like poor Tim's SD70ACe project. (I don't admire being responsible for that one either) I have waited for a few years for a project like this to come together several times, and I fully understand, so I don't bug the guys, because it is a burden they carry, all because they wanted to contribute something nice to the hobby. I know several people who started with good intentions like this, that ended up bowing out of the hobby all together, because they found the project so daunting and the humiliation of failure so devistating. I understand completely, and could NEVER hold ill will towards those people, because their intentions are NEVER to rip anyone off, rather their intentions were to contribute to the hobby and make people happy, it's just sometimes just turns out to be way too much work in the end for one guy. It breaks your motivation, your will, and burdens your very soul!
I agree Robert. Thats why I am becoming more cautious on helping other. Sometimes good intentions can drag your name in the mud. I know that my projects take forever to get completed. Just look at my FEC 434. Lots of time I want to work on them, but after work, you are just too tired. I have a rule, never hurry a artist doing his work. Its like saying can you do triple bypass a little faster. Good work takes time. The exception is Jim Oconnel. He seems to get it done overnight.
THANK YOU Robert! You put into words precisely how it feels to an artist/manufacturer when all of the sudden a fun project becomes a nightmare. I especially loved how you put it "For them it's as easy as pressing a few quick paypal buttons on their keyboard, but for the guy doing the project, it's different." I must say though that everything I have done for Jurg has been enjoyable because they are one of a kind pieces and he has shown great patience with me. But I have never taken pre-payment for multiples of one particular item for the very reason you explained. Yes, there are the few who will rip you off. But I have found that in this scale, and this relatively tight community of Z scalers especially, that we do our best to hold each other up both for the furtherance of the hobby and also for accountability. For this reason I feel Jurg had a right to make his plea for help in the matter. For those of us who carry the burden of trying to keep so many "happy" because we CAN do something we need to learn from this and NOT take prepayment from too many clients at once. Prepayment is in our best interest with some individuals (and the project they commission) at a time BUT, as you said, poor Eddie probably had no idea how overwhelmed he would become or he never would have promised anything. Its a balancing act for anyone selling be it a craftsman or a retail seller. Most of you guys have NO idea what Anthony has to juggle to get your order out the door in a timely fashion (and he does an excellent job of it BTW) and he isn't the maker of the products he ships off to you. But his passion for excellence drives him. Same with Robert. Same with me, well with a bit more lacking on the excellence part :dazed: So where was I, oh yes, thanks again Robert for telling the other side of the story! Karin Snyder
Hazzah!!! Robert, John, Karin, Please take this honor for all that you contribute to the hobby and the hard work that you do to inspire others.
To all, I applaud the excellent commentary by both Robert and my wife Karin. You two have very thoroughly covered the issues that custom work entails. Artists are driven by their passion to create and to do it right in their own eyes. When is a project complete, or enough? In the case of mountains covered with greenery......when are there enough trees on the hill side? Remember. good things take time. I doubt there is a single Z scaler who is scheming on how to rip off their fellow modeler and get rich off the trusting sole who invests in custom work. It would be such a simple matter to announce to the entire world that "so and so" is a jerk and a rip off artist. One could easily smear a name to the entire modeling world what with yahoo, ZCS, and Train Board at our disposal. Sure, getting our licks into the offending fellow would make us feel justified in our own eyes, but truth be told, the complaiing person might end up looking the smaller of the two. It all boils down to carrying through after the deal had been struck and the hand shake, (as in days of old) No one wants to be ripped off and kiss their hard earned dollars good bye, so yes, we do send our dollars to folks many miles away and somewhat impatiently await our treasures to land in our mail boxes on some cold winter day. When it comes to waiting for our treasures to arrive, we are like little Ralphie in Christmas Story who was waiting for his secret decoder to arrive in the mail. Believe me, I've been there and done that. I still await with great earnestness for the mailman to drop off "the box" with my coveted items. In this case, I think today will see my auto racks from AZL arrive so I can send them on to their anxious buyers. I discourage prepayment also because then I take on the role of banker and life is crazy enough without holding people's money. I HATE book keeping as some of you may know. Back to the story.........I'm glad this incident is turning out right, so let's all just continue to support one another and practice patience, all the while knowing that we must also take responsibility for making wise buying decisions. For the record, I have a wad of money from a trusting customer right now that has waited for a year for some custom work being done and don't you think my conscience is bothering me knowing he is waiting on that end for a good word from me like. "it's on its way to you" So.......kudos to all of us who love this hobby and want to in some small way make a contribution to the scale and be a part of an exciting adventure. Going where no man has gone before.......we are Z scale model railroaders.
Compelled to Reply I appreciate these fine words that all of you are speaking now. When it comes to hitting the nail on the head, I think it drives the nail in with one swift well aimed blow. No deviation or deflection! I am guilty now three times for agreeing to take on a project to help spread a special item in Z only to be overwhelmed with a growing desire from fellow Z scalers. The first and second were Mi-Jack Translift intermodal container cranes. Expecting the few intermodal hobbiest to only order I got orders from people I never heard of, twice. Nearly 50 of them were built with 14 being full blown with lighting. If you never followed the posts it takes 11 casting and 14 pieces of home etched brass to assemble one, then paint and decals. Many hours were spent on making new molds and etching it drove me crazy. When they all were painted, decaled and out the door I claimed I'd never do it again. But... Sure enough, I stuck the old foot in my mouth a third time wanting to basically get the chance to clone a few copies of David's SD70ACe shell for myself and a few others, well, this is a sour subject with me but a "hoping" 2-10 has turned to near 50, with more late request coming in. I have offered to give people their $40 bucks back, but no one has replied. I am so glad this project is coming to a close. I have the brass and just need a few more shells. Weather is not good for casting right now, too damp, makes the resin bubble something fiercely. As much as I want this project to be done I can't slack on my quality control. Ask Jeffrey White, if I don't like it, then I don't expect anyone else to like it and it gets placed in file 13! My time to dabble in Z is limited as the last 23+ months I have been working 12 hours or more a day/night. Usually work is 10 hours away, but as close as 3 to as far as 18 hours from home. This current job has been 7+ months of 12+ hours plus 2+ hours drive time and limited sleep with about 12 days off total in that time. I am exhausted yet not burned out. I feel it though. I am 18 hours from home, have not seen my wife in 7+ months and she has had two serious surgeries in the past 3 months and things for her are not looking good. In less than 2 weeks, Feb 19th, my job will end and their is nothing else on the books for me to go too. I won't lie to you I am scared. I am getting short temptered too. But I want these SD70ACe's to be done. I PROMISE I WILL NEVER TAKE PRE-ORDERS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!! As you can see by reading the above, I do have alot on my mind and the stress is growing. What is Eddie going thru right now? I have never been one to coorespond with him in regular emails so I can't say. He use to be very active here. I envy his BNSF collection from 1/8th scale to his Z scale. What BNSF fan wouldn't!! I can not speak for Eddie but if it is personal issues, be it finance, family or job, I can relate and understand 100%. Hobo Tim
AH MEN Brother I think there is another issue here also. Many of us when we start a project do it with a hand shake and unfortunately when that handshake becomes 20 or more and there is no paper trail a lot of detail is lost and not intentionally lost but I know my memory of today is not as good as my memory of my days in Africa over 30 years ago now. I waited a long time for the brass end pieces to finish Allan's cars. I had the castings and when I finally caught up with him he had the etchings in his brief case but I am sure he did not know who was still needing them or if I had got mine and lost them and was trying to get a second set. He did not question me just handed them over saying how many do you need? Sometimes you are almost afraid to show your creations as there is always at least one person who wants a copy and that first one is not the problem but as word creeps out see what I got and there is crowd that follows in a feeding frenzy. To me it is like being on a boat at sea. You have this one lone sea gull or albatross following you and he has been there for days just off the stern and today you throw it a few scraps of bread or some fish and within the hour there is a flock following you and they are there for days on the hope that they too will get in on the action. Been on the boat and I have been the seagull also.
