Great to hear from you again Larry. When you started this post a little over a year ago, you said that you wanted to pass on information (memories) of your experiences with railroads in this area. Congratulations, mission accomplished with (I'm certain) much more to go for all of us. As I mentioned in an earlier post, not a single one of my train rides ever took me south of Charleston on either ACL or SAL. Nor or any of my other train rides (~40 - 50 years ago) quite as memorable as my trips on "my train" - the "Boll Weevil." I should explain that "my train" business. My mother and grandmother both insisted that at a very early age, the first time I saw the "Boll Weevil", I called it "my (as in personally belonging to yours truly) train." This at age possibly 4 or 5? However, they also insisted that I learned the alphabet from railroad cars (this, I kinda/sorta remember with Ann Arbor being very much in my mind). However, the "Boll Weevil" was (and still is) very much the train of my younger years, especially during school vacations from grades 1 through 4 -those days I would almost every day see both the northbound version (#26) at 11:00 - 11:30 a.m. and southbound (#25) at 3:00 - 3:30 p.m. During the school year, the school bus would sometimes deign to deposit me at one of the 2 or 3 places we crossed the Seaboard at the proper time. It was, to be honest, one of those very common (or so I read now) work-a-day plug locals that provided short range transportation to some number of people and families who had one or even - no car. Hard to conceive of now, but very common then, especially on the farms and plantations that populated coastal South Carolina. It was also, the only passenger service on the "EC". I never saw it as more than a three car train, the power (normally 2027 or 2028 - on very rare occasions a GP-7), a straight baggage car and the coach. All in Pullman green with gold Seaboard lettering and numbers. And, even though it was a lowly local, always clean (in and outside) and shiny on the outside. If you're not familiar with Seaboard motor cars, #2027 and #2028, look up a photo on the Internet. But, lose the skirting, they were gone by the time they served as regular power on the "Boll Weevil." I'm trying to pull together occasions and vignettes from my rides on #25/#26, but it's hard to really encapsulate an 8 - 10 minute train ride (exactly 4 miles and approximately 330 feet), but definitely "my train."
THE BOLL WEEVIL 11 Feb 2010 Good morning Dave and all. The 'Boll Weevil' was one of the trains I would have liked to ride on. It would have been great to have made a trip on it from the old North Charleston station to Meggett. That would have a been a good sight seeing trip. Traveling along side Spruill Avenue, around the Navel Ship yard, passing by the oil stroage tanks, crossing the ACL's tracks at Town Creek Tower and passing to the rear of the Union Station, crossing Meeting Street at the SCEGC car /bus barn, then the Southern tracks, then King Street and stopping at the Seaboard's Grove Street Station. From the station, passing by Hampton Park, the Citadel and then over the Ashley River bridge. Riding a train across the Ashley River was a 'hoped to do - but never did' and now there is no railway bridge to cross. Traveling on down to and crossing SC 61 and US 17 at Dupont Crossing on the Savannah Highway. After crossing over the Savannah Highway, the train would pass to the rear of where my family had lived in that large old home, on the corner of Stinson and Savannah Highway. By going all the way to Meggett, the Boll Weevil would also cross over the Stono River bridge. A treat in itself. In later years, I met and then knew the people who had their home next to the bridge on River Road. By that time, it was scheduled to be removed. That would have been a good place to live - at least for me. Meggett being a farming area, had a lot of a lot of tracks, and rail crossings between the two railroads (ACL and SAL). At the right time, it would have been a good rail fan place. That 'would be a good trip' would now be fifty plus years old. A number of years later (about 1954), when a ship hit and effectivly closed the Ashley River highway bridge for many months, SAL operated a commuter train over this line until the highway bridge was reopened. At that time, my family lived in Augusta and I missed out riding a train over that route again. Too bad the Charleston City officials did not have the vision for a future need of that rail line - as they now would like to have it in place. Larry @ SCRS
Larry - To tell the truth I never even considered the SAL trackage north of Grove St. station. At that age (under 10) I was very much a "country boy" and didn't much care for cities, even Charleston. It was later in my teens that I realized how lucky I was to live in the country - maybe I should call it the exurbs, and have access to a city like Charleston was then. However, even at the age of 8 I was fascinated by the thought of riding all the way to Savannah on #26. Just wasn't clever enough to work out the logistics. Never thought about Meggetts, darn. And remember, you would have crossed the Stono twice on the way to Meggetts. Crossing the Ashley River bridge was while somewhat familiar to me, it was still a thrill to do so. The train slowed down considerably inbound to Charleston (25 mph for all trains), but it quickly picked up speed west-bound. Those 600 hp motor cars apparently had quite a bit of speed with those two car trains accelerating quite rapidly from a flag stop. And I doubt that the local politicians wish that the line still existed, doubt that most of 'em are aware that it ever existed. Nope, their vision is still too clouded with that 1950's multi-lane highways with curb cuts every 11 feet vision and cramming every human being they can into the area. Well, enough of that - needless to say if they ever come up with a back'ards time machine, and it's dangerous - I volunteer.
While I never rode the SAL as a passenger, thus ruling out a trip on the southbound Boll Weavil, just thinking about the description brings back pleasant memories of my Rotherwood, West Ashley childhood. As is documented, with my grandfather on the ACL line running through Stono Park and the northbound Fruit Growers Expres hitting the SAL crossing at the Piggly Wiggly and Dupont, I never longed for train action. Thanks for the stories.
Another memory from riding the "Boll Weevil" was the fact that #25 (the southbound after noon train) very often had a "Candy Butcher" - at least my dad called him that. To the best of my memory, I never saw one on the northbound, morning train. A kind of portly, black gentleman who wore about the most starched white jacket I had ever seen to that time in my life. I don't think he could have picked up much trade since the "Boll Weevil" both ways was never too passenger rich. Possibly he was dead heading home? Falcon468 that afternoon FGEX train that you saw was probably #86 or one of its' sections. #86 was the "Advance Perishable Service" and during certain times of the year ran in two or three sections. Typically the "EC" saw 8 or 9 scheduled trains but during the packing season, that could (from my memory) increase to 12 - 15, mostly northbound. This is the train Mr. McCoy wrote about in the article "The Train 86 Show At Barrelville" in a past issue of "Lines South." Train 86 was very noticeable because (during spring and summer) it had a lot of FGEX reefers and piggy-back.
TRAINS #25 AND #26 - THE BOLL WEEVIL My 1/3rd of a mile stretch of HO scale Seaboard Air Line today acquired its' first dedicated passenger equipment. My Bachmann "doodlebug" SAL #2023 arrived via USPS today. This is intended to make the operations of locals #66 and #67 just a wee bit more complicated -not to mention the presence of Manifest Extras North and reefer empties extra south. While Bachmann's #2023 is not an exact duplicate of SAL's #2023 - close enough for me. I'm impressed with the finish on this product and especially its' low-speed operation. The only problem thus far is that the Trailer coach #803's coupler height does not match the power units'? The power car however readily couples to my freight cars and Athearn passenger cars. Time for the test track I reckon. While all of Seaboards motor cars, save #2027 amd #2028, were retired by 1951 - guess I'll have to stretch a bit back in time.
This may be old news but I recently stumbled across Custom Model Railroads' website. The company is building models of selected towns and cities located along the Southern's Charleston-Hamburg line circa 1916. They've constructed a beautiful model of the Charleston Union Station. (Custom Model Railroads, layouts and kits).
31 March 2010 Good afternoon all. Thanks PalmettoLTD. I did not know about the Custom Models web site, and from that picture they had to come up with the plans. All I have is some pictures and the ones I have do not have all of the station areas in them. I have been wanting to build the Charleston Union Station in 1/4 scale and maybe these people just might be able to do that for me. I like that picture. At one time, I wanted to model that Southern Rail line and and have the Charleston Union and the Augusta Union Station's as part of it. Oh well. So much for dreaming. About the year 1959 and again sometime in summer of 1966, we were back in the area on military leave and I took pictures a lot of 35MM slides of those same stations. On the 1966 summer photo trip, thunderstorms were heavy, the sky dark and the slides were not the best, however they were better than not having any at all. That trip from Charleston to Augusta was a quick one as we had to begin our road trip back to Klamath Falls, Oregon. I know Aiken will now be a stop on my nest trip to Augusta. Larry @ SCRS
Hi Larry, I spoke to a gentleman at the CMR at lunch to ask about the CUS model and learned that the model was scaled from photos, Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps, and railroad valuation maps. Unfortunately, they do not have elevation drawings. I also learned that the model is only complete on the two sides shown in the photo. I asked about the possibility of a kit and learned that a model of the head house and train shed will set an individual back a cool $6K-$7K. Ouch....... Buddy Hill
Buddy - Thanks for the info on CMR. Their model of CUS looks very very close to any photos I've ever seen of the structure except for the lack of the Grace Bridge in the background, must be for pre-1929. Guess it may be my bias showing, but I always thought Seaboards' spanish-style stucco station at Grove St. was the neatest of all the Charleston stations, very modelable both in style, size, and location. But, again as with all the other Seaboard attractions it was not one that I wasted film on!! Fortunately, the "Boll Weevil" was definitely one of the "Flag-stop" locals as I exprerienced at Wappoo Rd. and as I understood from others, also that dirt path that lead into the "piney woods."
31 March 2010 Thanks Buddy for the update; Apparently they had some of the same pictures of the Union Station that I have and are available at libraries and on the internet. I'm sure the Insurance and valadation maps had additional information which also helped them to build the model. It is a very good model. Thanks for checking with them. I expected the cost to be high dollar, however not that far up to touch the $6k range. This past weekend we were in Charlestion - mostly on James Island just off Folly Road and out at the James Island Yacht Club. We were there for my wife's mother 90th birthday (see Sunday Paper - Charleston News and Post) and had the party at the Yacht club. My granddaughter and I did go to the Citadel Mall on Sunday afternoon. We went to see the North Charleston Model Railroad layouts. It was good to visit the club again and talk with some of the men I knew. Larry @ SCRS
Dave-Agree with you about the good looks of the SAL Grove Street Station. I'm still looking for dimensional data for that building. Once (if) the economy returns to normal I'm considering retaining the services of a researcher to copy ACL and SAL field data files at the ICC Library in DC. Hoping the Grove St. Station data is included. In the meantime do you happen to recall what color the stucco exterior was painted? The trim work color? Larry-You expressed interest in the Charleston Union Station and the Augusta Union Station. I've seen floor plans for both stations. I believe you will find them somewhere in the files at the following link: Southern Railway Drawings and Blueprints There are a LOT of Southern depot drawings contained within so it may take a while. Enjoy!
PalmettoLTD - Grove Street was in what I always considered their standard colors of "buff and brown." To the best of my knowledge, ALL of SAL's structures on the "EC" were those colors. It was only upon exposure to other divisions that I found out they apparently used different colors elsewhere; i.e. green and white. But from at least 1948- 'til torn down (1964?), it was buff 'n brown.
30 April 2010 PalmettoLTD I never did tell you that I did down load the Southern Railway Drawings and Blueprints link and -like you said -it provided a lot of information. Now to use the information. Larry @ SCCRS
Larry - Glad you found the information useful. Not sure if this will help, but the Salisbury NC and the CUS were designed by the same architect. As I recall it shares a few of the same design elements as the CUS. If you ever travel that way it may prove useful to take a few reference photos for the color of materials used, etc. Eddie - I have not forgotten about your drawing request. Buddy Hill
Anyone who's interested and has followed this thread, I suggest that you go to the site "abandonedrails.com" and look at the map section for the EC line. Although I've perused this site several times, today I found that on the map section the actual r/o/w is shown by a heavy brown line. This is the first time I noticed this tho' I believe most of the previous times I used the satellite view. If you want a better idea of how this area was 40-50 years ago, remove more than half the houses and roads. P.S. The part close to Charleston marked "West Ashley Greenway" is on the roadbed of ACL's Croghans branch.
Hello, I just found this thread today and have spent the last 2 hours pouring over it. I've always wanted to know more about the CUS and the ACL. Thank you to all who have contributed. Leon Butler
For those who remember or care, July 1, 1967 saw the end of two great railroads - the ACL and the SAL. Perhaps I should drape the layout room door with black crepe. Reading Purplepappa's comments about the CUS and ACL finally triggered my complete memory of a 3-way meet that I witnessed at Johns Island on the ACL. My wife-to-be worked part-time for Southern Bell therefore our date nights were whenever she didn't work a late shift or have to study. Believe it was a Tuesday night and we had gone out on a date and after dinner and a movie neither one of us was quite ready to go home, think it was a little after 10 p.m. She knew (as did everyone else) that I was really interested in trains and sometimes after a date, she'd accompany me in my pursuit. Well, she agreed and since it was a beautiful night we decided a ride out to Johns Island and my checking out action on the ACL mainline was just the ticket. While the SAL was more or less in my backyard, seeing the ACL was a bit unusual and a treat for me. People not familiar with the Charleston area prior to the 1970's would hardly recognize Johns Island prior to the 70's - it was rural! Anyway, approaching the Johns Island depot I saw behind the depot two GP-7's and an F-7A. Behind the units, stretching as far as I could see was a "lot of Railcars." This train was stretched out on the Croghans branch caboose first (tho' I couldn't see it of course). The depot was closed with only the outside lights on with two guys standing in the parking lot as we drew up and parked. After we did, they approached us, the fireman and head brakeman on the train. They were as curious about our appearance there as I was by the unusual sight of what looked to be a complete freight train backed down the branch. I explained that I had grown up down the other end of the branch and that I'd never seen so many cars and engines on it. The brakeman told me he doubted I'd ever see this again. He said they were part of a 3-way meet and pass and that a hot northbound perishable was in front of #92 (the "Champion") which was running about an hour late. This last I knew was a huge "no-no", and very likely to cost some one if time was not made up. Shortly afterward we watched flashlights on both sides of the train coming toward the engines. This was the rear flag and conductor checking whether the train had done any damage to light rail and "rotten ties." Being a lady was present the conductor's only comment was about a "cracker-jack" dispatcher. I did have the impression that had she not, the language would have been somewhat stronger. In any case, about 15 minutes later, 4 GP-7's and about a hundred reefers pulled pass us on the sidetrack. Then I'd say about 10 minutes later a blur of three E units and I'd guess 15 passenger cars tore past us - and, from what I'd heard, passenger trains on the ACL were not to exceed 90 mph - I do not believe that the engineer that night on the "Champion" was paying attention. I'm not even certain how he could have observed the speed limit on the Ashley River bridge. Piecing this memory together has led to other trains of thought on the ACL at Johns Island, mostly involving passenger trains with a couple of piggy-back cars and a red caboose trailing behind.
26 June 2010 Good morning Leon and Dave. Dave. You were in the right place at the right time. i would have liked to have been there also. Purplepapa-Leon. I have often read your posts on the OGR forum. Thank you for your comment. I also model the ACL along with the SAL and SOU in 1/4 inch scale hi-rail. Larry @ SCRS LN_CHILDERS@CHARTER.NET
Larry - Guess you're right, but I wonder how many times something similiar (or perhaps one should say unusual) happened while we weren't looking? Without real mobility 'til I was 19 or 20, visits to Johns Island were kinda rare. Then, even when I had a car the action on the Seaboard was just a couple blocks away and I had a hand on their schedule. Took a chance anytime I went out to watch ACL at Johns Island. One thing that has recurred to me is my puzzlement about piggy-back cars tacked onto passenger trains. Have a lot of photos of Southern passenger trains so made up, not a caboose in sight. Ditto the few photos I've seen of Seaboard's secondary passenger trains. Before the merger I had occasion to be in the neighborhood of the depot several Sunday afternoons in a row. ACL's afternoon train (which number I remember as #75/76) always seemed to have from 1 to 4 pigs behind the passenger cars always trailed by one of their red "woodies." I wondered then, as I do now, whether ACL had work rules requiring a freight crew whenever freight cars were moved?
