Just received a new Rivarossi Challenger , but from an older run from Trainworld. The traction tires were off the wheels when I opened up the carton. After about 8 minutes I got them back on, but they will not stay on. I'm thinking of a return & refund or exchange. Any suggestions/experiences would be appreciated. John Patton, are you listening?
Chuck, Yes I got my ears open and eyes reading.. I'm going to say again.. somehow they had that loco on a bench or something..... My reasons for saying this.. Is because the traction bands when DRY will not slip off the rim! They fit tight, matter of fact like a rubber band.. this means they pull down into the grove in the wheel tread.... Thing is, for them to be loose they HAD to swell. And you ask hows that possible. Well a few ways. one by hand stretched enough to come off the wheels. And the other main way, is well for oils to be on the wheel an absorbed by the band. THATS right they ARE NOT water resistant! They will absorb oils. this makes them swell. and expand to come off on their own! So. to try an fix this problem. Take some testors enamel thinner with a q-tip, and clean the wheels tread, and the band itself with the thinner. it will clean up the oils and restore the band and also, keep the band from drying out... I have no idea what thinner has in it thats good on rubber or rubberish materials, but it restores it an keeps it from dry rotting! I would give this a try first...... And then if it doesn't work, then return it. I been working on an old wheel that has been removed from the axle and the axle an other wheel lost, to fill in the grove for the traction band with something permanent! Once I get it mastered.. I will not have no traction bands on any of my loco's! I hate the things! And to replace them, is like impossible! I been doing some tinkering with "All Metal" body putty for automobiles, thats aluminum based, which will conduct electric, and is sandable, and will stick to litterally anything... I believe that this therory of mine will prove worthy to fill in the groves in all wheels to eliminate the bands. and having to replace them! Till then, I'll keep cleaning my wheels with testors thinner, and keep the bands in good shape so I can run them with no problems. Clean them first Chuck, and the wheels that the bands are on. and even the rest of the wheels to rid it of all oils an maybe even grease, clean the band itself good as well the inside of it an the outside and then see if it shinks, and put it back on the whells, and if it stays you've fixed the problem. and if not. then ship it back for a replacement, and include a note why your returning it. And also dirrect them for a replacement thats been looked at to make sure this isn't the case on it, or for a refund.... HTH
John, you truly are a Rivarossi Theologian but with the long week-end and fearing you may be out of town, I panicked. This is not the first challenger I had trouble with, plus the 4-8-4 and you remember the 2-8-8-2. With my historical Riv problems I was not comfortable with the possibility of de-railing again. It's on the way back. I guess the only model I will be as ease with is one with the allegheny drive but that's out of my league. ! T H A N K S A G A I N!
Chuck, Naww I'm staying home an going to run some of my own trains on my layout for the holiday weekend.. This is the only way i get to run anything on my layout being I'm working most of the time so... Anyway, you have any problems, don't be afraid I'm gone, or anything no matter what I stop in and take a trip through the forums here so.... I'll see it an do the best I can to answer it.. Thinking of Rivarossi, I'm doing some custom loco's for myself. If you know of any Rivarossi tenders, Vanderbuilt or Square ones no matter what ones... Please be sure to e-mail me or drop me a line in the B&O fallen flags forums on the board here. And even loco's for parts etc... I may be interested in them as I'm always up to something new! And needing various parts. And Y O U R V E R Y W E L C O M E anytime! [ 01. September 2002, 21:11: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
I just had a thought while reading this. We used to bond rubber and various softer plastics with a tiny drop of AC glue. Cyano-acrylic will instantly bond your finger to another finger or the table, so be careful ! Yes, do clean the bands in thinner, let them dry, then if that works you are OK. But... If it doesn't work, and the bands are still too big, it wouldn't hurt to try cleaning the wheels, axels and rubber bands, then cut the rubber band apart with a razor blade. Work with tweezers and tooth picks. (Rubber gloves wont help here.) Place a tooth pick load of AC in the wheel's groove. NOT A WHOLE DROP! Don't try to get glue all around, just a dot to start with. Now use the tweezers to hold the rubber band, and with a clean tooth pick, place the end of the rubber band down in the groove and press the rubber band down with the tooth pick for a second or so. It will begin to feel "nailed" in place. Now wrap the rest of the rubber tire around the wheel making sure it is laying in the groove. Bring the cut end up over the "stuck" end but do not try to stretch the rubber. Now cut the end off flush with the stuck end, and glue it in place like the first end. After both ends have set for an hour, use a lady's fingernail sanding stick to dress down any bump at the glue joint. Turn the engine over and try it with the new rubber band. Wait a week to see if the engine was over-oiled which will cause the oil to migrate all over the engine everywhere. If it fixed it, fine, now do the other wheel. But, if the rubber band swells up again, oil is what the problem is. That is why to only do one wheel to find out. Getting the rubber out of the groove, may require you saw it out with a hacksaw blade. That's why I said only a tiny drop. You will just have to send the engine to John Patton for cleaning and repairs. (A few really brave souls may try to perform this by their own hand, but they have never been heard from again.) John has probably already told you that oil goes in a can, grease in tiny amounts goes in bearings, and doesn't migrate. I use Lubriplate #630 AA, but I think John uses some fancy high tec goop he swiped off a flying saucer before the Air Force confiscated his "find". That stuff is slicker than witch's spit ! [ 03. September 2002, 20:43: Message edited by: watash ]
Watash, I have done this in the past and has found it to work very well......The biggest problem I have found is that after so long the glue will release from the wheel! From setting a few days an not run! This is why I have given up that technique on repairing a traction band. I've been wanting something more permantent that will last, and hold out! So I got an old wheel with a traction band grove that was in a box of junk that I'm working on with the autobody filler called "All Metal" thats aluminum based. So will conduct electric of the wheels picks up electric being most times the traction banded wheel isn't electrified. But have found instances where it was a pick up wheel to aid the electical flow to the motor and head lights. Alittle over applied being this stuff finds its own level and flows, will harden like metal (on real automobiles) it can be drilled an taped for screws! So. And is easily sanded to what ever shape needed. So I thought It may work and if so. I will rip all the bands off me loco's and fill in the traction band grove! Just testing this therory and being sure it will work is the time consuming test. Once I'm 100% sure it will work and last and withstand normal running and so on. Then I'm going to fill in every traction band grove on any wheels from steam to diesel wheels I can find in my collection! As for my grease. I use "White Lithium Marine Grease" used on fishing reels and boats etc. Its not water solable, but is a great lubercant for around plastic! Does not eat it or make it swell... Very good stuff. And also I found that it acts as a heat sink. It draws heat from the bearings and movable parts and I use it on the motor and all.. Very stable stuff as well will not "fling" everywhere if used lightly and not over lubercated. Which is the main cause of loco failure to steamers especially and diesels as well.. Guys over lubercate, which is why they have problems.... oils.. easy does it! You don't need a whole drop of oil at a time per place.... Just a small drop per gear (a little drop) And thats it. Bearings, just a swipe of the White Lithium Marine Grease will be plenty... I have noticed on every repair job I've got in the shop so far the lubercation is an issue.... I can out all greases an oils and so forth. and then find the problem, repair it and then relubercate.. In doing so. Its not the fact of lightly cleaning.. Most all jobs I got in the shop is more or less an "oil change" or "de-greased" and then re-greased! I've seen loco's already thats got the bottom frame plate with the bowl in it to go around the axle gear litterally full of oil. As the wheel went around the teeth of the gear picked up oil and carried it to the other gear etc .... like in an oil pan of a motor in a car! These gears an gear boxes does NOT require that heavy of lubercation at all times. Just a coating is all thats needed. I think the biggest reason guys lubercate so heavily is because of noise... The louder the loco runs the more lubercation they add to try to "quiet" the loco.. This will not help! But will make it worse in time! It may quiet the loco down. but in time will cause trouble with other more heartcheing things like wheels an gearing... Swell up on gear, and you just got a locked tight drive that will not roll over one rotation! It swells the gear so much that it fits to tight for it to spin on the pinion! And if you wonder how gears swell.. being they're plastic. Mylar gears are porcious! They absorb oils an grease. Maybe not water. but the denser oil is a "sticking" type deal. The water will evaporate where the oil will not and is always their. So it gets absorbed from being their, and durring running it get absorbed faster from heat... Heat makes the Mylar swell, just slightly tho. being it can only swell so much from heat (contract & expand) and theis is when the oils an grease geting into it and does the real harm to the gear.... This is another therory. I use brass bearings an bushings, before they are installed to a shaft or axle (before wheel press fitting) they are boiled in a pan of oil! I impregnate the oil into the bearing an bushings. This helps when you lubercate.... You don't need as much. and then when it is low on oils an grease as the bearing and bushing gets hot, it brings out oil to keep the shaft and bearing itself lubercated. Its almost like permanent lubercation. Even tho its always good to still add a drop manually yourself to the bearing and not let it do its own lubercation... Being if you don't add a drop to it. it will wear on the bearing an the shaft in time, and then in time it will have to much play to keep the true alignment. This is why slightly extra lubercation is needed but NOT over done. Even factories seem to over lubercate. Which I have seen in maintenance papers with loco they stress the fact to NOT over lubercate and they do it themself! Which would figure. with the manufacturing and then sent some where else for assmebly an lubercation. The people who assemble and lubercate probably can not read the instructions to not over lubercate so they don't know any better...
