My new attempt at a layout, with more switching and less size.

I've slowly come to realize there's something wrong with my Z scale layout. Mostly that it was too big. I had the space, but it just dominated the room, so I shrunk it down to a much more manageable 18" X 40". This should also make construction MUCH easier and now I can easily reach to the back. Next, there wasn't enough to do. So, switched from a double loop passenger layout to an industrial one and got rid of the loop idea altogether. I also got rid of the things I slowly realized were just making things too difficult for myself. Gone are the grades, double track, and the tunnel as they just weren't worth it. All things at least one person had warned me about that I didn't listen to. Anyway, I sat down and cranked this out in a couple of hours and I kinda like it.




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The tanks load up on oil from barges docked next to them and then transport it to the storage tanks. The 2 sets of unlabeled spurs are so I can switch which end the locomotive is attached because there's no room for them on the loading and unloading spurs. There's 2 so I can put both locomotives off the mainline while the tanks are filling. There's room for 2 SD70Ms on each of them (4 total).

So, have I made any major design mistakes?

 

While I'm waiting patiently for MC Fujiwara to come along and give you a detailed description of your layout and how you can make it better, a couple of things I noticed.

First, all of your turnouts point to the ends of the line. And without a runaround track anywhere to be seen, how will the locomotives drop anything off at their destinations? I would definitely consider at the very least adding a passing siding or two so the locomotive can get on the other side of the cars for deliveries.

Next, your unloading point is roughly a scale football field away from your loading point, yet you "take the long way around" to deliver the product. Now this isn't exactly bad. All you need to do is find some way to add some distance using scenery and maybe a theater trick or two to separate both scenes.

Is this layout going to have access on all sides?

I'm going to take what you've got and put it in XTrakCad and see if I can come up with something with a few more operations possibilities.

-Matt

 

Just curious - is there some reason for why this needs to be folded back upon itself in a U shape, instead of using a longer and thinner shelf?

And is there some reason for why you need to model both source and destination? Modeling just one end and letting your train disappear "down the track" or arrive "from down that way" (i.e. from staging) generally makes a small switching layout a lot more credible.

Smile,
Stein

 

@steinjr it could be wider like a shelf, so that's a possibility. It's going in my living room, so I need it to be unobtrusive. I've found larger layouts seem like far better ideas before you try living with it. A shelf might fit the bill. A single station type layout would give me more room for the single station, but I kind of like having a specific destination. Also, I like the back-and-forth switching scheme I've set up for it (see below).

@PWJ. I plan on adding scenery, or even just a barrier to break it up, so that's not an issue. As for all my turnouts, yes, the layout only works if the locomotive pushes the tanks in at both ends, which is kind of the point. I use spurs rather than a siding because when I tried to put in a siding, it was too short and it didn't look quite right to me. It's more complicated than if I used a siding, But, I figure this slightly convoluted setup will make running the layout more interesting than just having them go round-and-round.

Thanks to both of you for your help.

 

Right, but if I'm the switcher, and I pull a cut off the dock on the left end, when I arrive in the storage, I'm going to go in engine first. Short of the Great Hand of God to get me onto the other side of the train, I'm stuck there. It needs a run-around, unless you plan to only pull cars in, and wait for them to unload, then shuttle them back to the dock. If you're going to do that though, you'll either need a second engine to take over while the first is trapped, or you can get rid of all the other tracks.

And I'd encourage the shelf too. Right now, for me, it seems like it's missing something else too. Like it needs another... something. But that's me, and I'm not running it. so who knows what I'm trying to think of.

 

There seems to be some confusion as to how this setup works. So, here it is step by step.



Tanks are loading, both locos are on spurs

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First Loco pulls the tanks past the spurs
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Second loco attaches to the back.

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First loco detaches and moves ahead to the spur (this puts it in position to move the tanks back to the loading platform)

There's a 4 image limit, so just imagine the second loco pushing the tanks into position for unloading, then moving onto the unoccupied spur (or not, but I like it out of the way.)

As I said, it's a bit challenging to get everything running, which is what I'm looking for anyway.

 

While that's doable, it's not very prototypical. Why not something like this:

​

Many more operational possibilities with this one. I've been playing with it in train mode in XTrakCad and it's pretty fun.

 

Okay, you posted your scheme. It will work, but the layout is a bit of a one-trick pony.

Core idea does not seem to be the use of sure spots (where each car goes to a specific car spot), but rather to get remove the engines that otherwise would be trapped from the front of the train and put them in a spur, then push the cars into their spur, pull new cars, pull past spur where engine is waiting, and then add engines that used to be the point engines at the rear of the train for the trip back.

I would suggest also exploring other ideas, including handling just one side of journey (either the start or the end of the journey) on the visible layout, with the other end being represented as non-modeled staging, e.g. by having a track where someone else "will have left cars" for the local switcher before the start of the operating session, or endring the sesson with cars "about to be picket up" by another train on a travk somewhere.

Smile,
Stein

 

Well, prototypical function wasn't my top priority. PW&NJ's plan is good, but there are no functional crossings in Z. But, he is right in that I need more industries to serve to keep it more interesting. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what other industries would have rail access to a dock. I'm going to peruse Linn Wescott's book and see if there are any good ideas to steal. Also, the idea of a hidden staging yard off in "points beyond" would be great if I had more space and hadn't completely sworn off the idea of hidden track (too hard to clean).

BTW, I'd like to thank everybody for all the feedback. It's always to have bunch of fresh eyes look at something, especially when they have more experience than you do.

 

So, then you make it a visible track.

Not a track where a whole train is waiting, but a track where some other not modeled train "previously" has dropped off cars your locomotive will handle or where your locomotive will leave cars that "later" will be picked up by some other train (again, not modeled).

Here is e.g. a small layout I have in my living room - 8 feet long by 15" at the widest, in H0 scale (i.e about the equivalent of about 40" long in Z scale):
http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp124/steinjr_1965/forum/ops01.jpg

A train has arrived from the local yard, heading west. A previous train has dropped off a couple of cars to spot at the set out track in front of Globe Manufacturing and Land of Lakes, and the Barge Terminal switcher has left a few cars on the Barge Terminal set out track.

Your train will make pick ups and set outs at the local industries (Globe Manufacturing, Land of Lakes, Hawkins Chemicals and at the 32nd street team tracks), as well as leave cars bound for the barge terminal on the barge terminal set out track, before returning towards the yard with outbound cars.

No hidden staging here, but if desired, you can e.g spend some time on sorting the cars for the barge terminal into some specific order, to make their spotting easier for the barge terminal switcher.

Smile,
Stein

 

Does this one from Marklin not actually work (I haven't had any Z-scale equipment for over 15 years so I don't know)? Walthers shows it in stock right now.

Glad to help. As for a later suggestion of replacing the crossing with a switch, that's actually how I had it set up before putting in the crossing. If you'd like, I can send over the XTrakCad file to tinker with. Just PM me your email address and I'll send it over.

Thanks,
Matt

 

"Actually Works" is such a strong term to throw around when talking about The Marklin Crossings. Even at the best of times, cars seem to bounce through it. I had one on my now defunct layout, but eventually took it out. Rokohan has a 13 and 90 degree crossing in the works (they used them on the module yards at NTS), but I'm not going to plan a layout based on what somebody is planning to release in the future.

 

A couple belated thoughts:

Prototype would use pipeline to xfer product from ships to the storage tanks since the storage tanks are so close to the dock. However, you did say you were going to use a viewblock or something to separate the scenes, so it might be ok.

I agree that trapping engines is not desirable. However, Progressive Rail had an industrial park in Minnesota with no runaround. They had spurs facing both directions, so they used an engine at each end of the park to switch trailing point spurs. (I believe they have since added a runaround just outside the park.) Easy if you're using DCC, maybe not so easy if you're using DC. BNSF often has an engine on each end of locals around here, so there are proto examples of having double ended freight trains aside from DPUs.

In general, I think you might get bored zipping cars back and forth on your current plan. Quick and dirty suggestion: put a runaround on the long section and elevate the upper right hand yard without storage tanks. The upper yard could then serve as holding tracks for loads and empties for the docks with an imaginary connection to the rest of the world. Maybe use the inner dock track(s) as another industry spur with shallow relief buildings.

 

Well, I took PW&NJ's improvements and worked it a bit. I simplified a little, switched part of it from left to right, and extended the spur so it runs next to the storage tanks. This will be the truck depot and it'll share a driveway with the tanks. The right side will be 3 different industries. I'm not sure which ones. I'll have to see which modern industry has the coolest available building kits in Z. I'll have a lot of room for one of them.




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Not bad, but a couple of comments. First, without a runaround at the top, you're stuck with one of the same problems as before (either a trapped loco, double locos, or a long push). Also, by flipping the switch on the passing track, you've pushed your siding up next to the tank cars. If the tank car area is going to be an interchange track that continues off to the north, then that's probably fine, but if you want that to be an industry siding, by having the other siding right next to it you seriously limit your structure options. And if you shorten that siding, you make it much harder to service the opposite siding (without removing the other cars, that is). This is where a drill track comes in handy.

Here's another version:



In this iteration, I've lengthened the dock yard and put the passing track on the main track, allowing trains to be pulled head-in, then cut the cars and back around to push the rest of the way, or pull them back out and put them on other tracks. The left upper siding has a drill track, so you can easily spot cars at that industry without a lot of backing out to the main, as well as on the opposite siding. And that right siding is now a little lower, allowing for adequate space for an industry there without encroaching on the other facility (tank farm, maybe?) on the top right.

And after doing this one, I looked back at your most recent version and thought "Hey, if he seems married to the idea of no passing track up on top, why not make this a very urban scene with a car barge up there?" This would make the distances to the industries much more prototypical and the lower passing siding can handle the whole layout. Here's how that might work:



In this version you might even be able to remove the divider altogether, then build out your pier (assuming that barges are angled in to the ramp) and build your industries in a very urban scene. You might even consider redoing the industry sidings below to fit in more of a grid system that would be more common in a city. This is getting more and more fun the more I think of it!

Anyway, just my two cents after taxes...

Enjoy!
-Matt

 

OK, couldn't resist. Here's a version with the tracks arranged in grid format to match city blocks with buildings and streets:



This one's really fun to operate. And imagining it with the city buildings in rows with the dock peeking out from between makes this really neat to me.

Plus if you wanted to get even more creative, you could get one of these (a Tomix z-scale railbus, part number 92157) and use the chassis to build something like the CNJ 1000 box cab diesel, then make the curves even sharper to be more city-like.

Anyway, if these versions look good to you, I've got all of the XTrakCad files. PM and I'll send them over.

Enjoy,
Matt

 

Thanks for the help.

I see your point about having the passing track at the dock. I'll have to look at yours (and perhaps some others) to see what works/looks best up there. I do like the top one you just posted. I also see your point about not putting two spurs in the upper corner. Since I'm going to have to give road access for the industries anyway, I guess a driveway to a truck depot will be part of that. I'm not sure about putting the whole thing in a city rather than an industrial park, but I'm going to let that idea rattle around for a while.

 

I really like the car fairy idea.
I definitely like Matt's last one with the "grid" which eliminates the switchbacks as well. Possibly the last track you may wan to include is one that heads off table to use as another source of incoming / out going cars.