I am excited by the news of these Rapido passenger cars. They look very cool. As for intermountain, I have always been happy with their products, even the ones that had mistakes. Their customer service is great. I have had to return loco's because they came damaged. But I have always recieved them back with no problems. The problem with the delays for new products doesn't bother me at all. Patience is a wonderfull thing.
prototypically correct ? I'm very happy that the Kato cars are "prototypically correct" for whatever road you are refering to but let's not overstate the issue - Kato creates some of the biggest "foobies" in the history of n scale; right up there with Con Cor.... have you seen their version of the Canadian Pacific Canadian ? I mean talk about "WRONG".... and as for quality I refer you to the original run of the stainless steel cars with the "I don't couple - couplers"... they had to authorize MT replacements - only available for a very limited time - if you were out of the country, you missed out..... $ 47.00 per car may sound high - but when you consider that there are no grabs or other detail parts to install; no diaphrams to add and no lighting kit to add (unlike Kato which has none of the above) then the price tag is a bit more understandable.... I like the "all inclusive" price; maybe you like the "al la carte" method... to each his/her own. Kato's products are great and I own many - but please don't hold them up as a paragon of either prototypical accuracy on a global scale nor as without fault..... they are neither.
I'm pretty much refering to the CZ, Super Chief, Daylight and upcoming Broadway Limited (plus the future releases along those lines). I'll admit that I had to look up "paragon" ("a model or pattern of excellence or of a particular excellence"), so contrary to what some may think, reading this thread can actually be educational. :tb-biggrin: Given the above definition, I think Kato is "a model of particular excellence," particular in this case refering to the points I made in my earlier post (prototypical, matching, complete set available as of date of release, high value for the price). They probably aren't a paragon with respect to super-detailing or correctness for Canadian/en prototypes (yet). I'm just fortunate to be a CB&Q modeler with passenger interests extending to other roads in and out of Chicago. Besides the CZ, the earlier corrugated were based on CB&Q prototypes, so Kato has basically spoiled me. But, to each their own. If it adds to your enjoyment of the hobby, buy it!:thumbs_up:
Oh oh, if I'm involved in education we're all in big trouble... I had to look up "look up"... LOL Agrred - the newer Kato stuff has been much better and they are working towards a prototypical car offering philosophy - good on em !
I don't know if depressing describes it properly. If a manufacturer (any manufacturer) produces a product and you aren't happy with something about it, don't buy it. If you've already purchased it and there's a problem, return it. I think all the manufacturers out there try their best to produce the best products they can. That being said, there are bound to be mistakes. Hopefully they will rectify the situation. We (the consumer) are the ones who support the manufacturers' actions with our dollars.
I can see your point about the manufacturers trying hard to get things right. But I try that in my own job. With that said, I just cannot help but think that charging customers for a fix to a known issue is NOT a reasonable thing. This just strikes me as a bone-headded management decision.
Read my above post about "instant rip off".. I can understand both views..However,there are the few dishonest that would take full advantage and ask for 6,8 or more sets of replacement decals and would use 'em on the passenger cars they have painted.. All to sadly I seen a lot of rip off returns/ missing part complaints when I use to work part time in a hobby shop..It was a eye opener for sure.
What IS the cost? Just for fun I wanted to see the "real" price difference per car by comparing Rapido (Panorama Line) cars with a current manufacterer such as Kato. Before I list my results I would like to say I have NEVER had an issue with Kato quality .. my issue has been one of prototypical accuracy, specifically with GN EMPIRE BUILDER cars; particularly so when you consider what Kato has since produced such as the CZ; ATSF Super Chief; Burlington (CB&Q); and most recent SP Daylight. So, that said, here's what I discovered with the soon (next year) to be released Rapido/Panorama Line n-scale line. Judge for yourself my results: 2 ea. Rapido n-scale passenger car: MSRP $95.80 (check the website http://www.rapidotrains.com/telegraph9.html for all the details that come "included" with this price). Or $47.90 per car 2 ea. Kato Smoothside passenger cars = MSRP $50.00 (based on a 4 car set MSRP $99.95) 2 car Kato LED light kits = MSRP $13.90 American Ltd. 2 car diaphragm kit = MSRP $4.95 MT-1015/16 (assembled) Body mount Couplers for 2 cars = MSRP $18.80 Per car cost = $43.83 :tb-ooh: Or substitute MT1017 Passenger trucks for 2 cars = MSRP $14.30 Per car cost = $41.58 :tb-shocked: And this does NOT cover "cost of labor" ... which is what YOU provide just to add the details listed and you still WON'T EQUAL what comes "included" with the Rapdio/Panorama Line cars. :tb-err: Have Fun and an 'N'Joyable Day!!
"what he said" ......exactly........I have a young son, a wife and a demanding job; time IS money - these are truely RTR passenger cars and when you read the aforementioned post you can see the "value calculation" that seems to indicate that the Rapido product is at the very least "cost compeditive".... time will tell if it is quality compeditive but if their HO offering is any indication, look out market; there's a new sheriff in town, and his name is Rapido.............
I can't figure out why people still think that they need to replace Kato couplers with MTs. Are people really doing that?
Makes about as much sense as replacing MT's with AccuMates, HUH??? :tb-tongue: But the real reason I included MT's in the description is because that will the coupler of choice for Rapido/Panorama Line ... and besides those Kato couplers never have worked as intended! :tb-cool:
Couplers that don't To be blunt, and with no malace aforethought - "because the couplers that Kato supplied with their original four car sets of Budd corrugated sides and some cars thereafter - sucked !" They didn't couple.......I mean really; they don't couple.... at all.........When I bought the three sets I hadn't even gotten them all out of their boxes before I was called by my LHS and told to come in within seven days and get 12 MT replacement sets - I had to install them myself ( they were not semi built, they were the "unbuilt" type; there was no diagram or reference suppied and they were a "beast" to install.....) I couldn't believe that I'd spent over $ 300.00 for that kind of junk.... but I had. Kato's couplers on those passenger cars and their two car hopper offerings just didn't work - period. Since then I've never trusted a Kato coupler on a car......I have no doubt that they improved the coupler, but that experince left me not cold, but '"frigid" on their couplers and their testing....
To be fair to Kato, this is the instruction sheet that came with the coupler upgrades: I installed those upgrades in exactly 50 Kato passenger cars (none newer than the Burlington corrugated cars), and found it to be a very simple process. All Kato releases since have had very reliable couplers. Also, they were not MT (Micro-trains) replacements. They were an upgraded version supplied by Kato free of charge.
Huh? I've never seen what you have just posted and I have converted about 20 cars to the MT's..... Now, I have no reason to challenge what you've shown ( who could ?) but it wasn't what was offered to me in 2000- 2001 ( I'm guessing at that date) I still have the MT packages I was given and it wasn't simple... That all notwithstanding; I was very put off at the time I had to change these couplers. Now, I really don't care but it does speak to the question you asked - why do people feel they have to change Kato coupers ? - because we all did have to change them......
While I’m not a big fan of passenger ops I think any production newcomer into the marketplace is refreshing even if their product has a few “warts”. Not everybody is a prototypical rivet counter. We all evolve in the modeling world at different rates. I am encouraged however that they are at least trying to fix the boo-boo without burdening those that don’t see the flaw as a show stopper. I do find their website somewhat humorous though. The name of the company is “Rapido” but they’re putting Micro-trains couplers on their cars. I guess you gotta’ give ‘em credit for trying to look a bit more prototypical in that area eh? Brian
Why Rapido The reference to "Rapido" in the compnay name isn't in regard to the coupler; it's named after the Canadian National train "Rapido" that ran from Toronto to Montreal in the 1960's to the VIA era. Two of the 'corrador" trains that were famous were the "Turbo" ( which Rapido is doing in HO) and th aforementioned Rapido which was conventionally powered.... I rode both as a child and young adult.
Well, I am looking forward to the Rapido coaches. I am happy to see that they will offer a coach instead of only a sleeper, like Walthers does (what can I do with a sleeper without coaches???). And they will produce a lot of road names too. And they will have metal wheelsets, MT couplers, diaphragms, lighting, and multiple car numbers.
If you were given MT couplers instead of the Kato replacements, you can't blame Kato for that. If we're comparing to current/future Rapido releases shouldn't we be using the current/future Kato releases? Why go back to the single Kato passenger hiccup, which was corrected easily and for free, in order to stack the deck in favor of the new guy?
I couldn't agree with you more - it's not fair to use a ten year old problem to compare today - but; people being what they are; we do. I know the new Kato couplers are better - but somewhere in the back of my mind (and obviously others) we dredge up the past failure and it becomes "truth"... not fair at all ! (BTW I can "blame" Kato for getting MT couplers - the original ones should have worked in the first place so replacements should not have been required but as we just agreed, that's old news and water under the bridge... to me anyway) Look at Model Power and Bachmann - they have both produced increasingly good products but you would be hard pressed to find "old time" modelers that won't assume that anything with their name on it is junk..... not fair; but understandable. We seem to gravitate towards the one bad experience and ignore a litany of successes..... such is life I guess. I'm not stacking the deck in favour of anyone - you seem to feel I'm shilling for Rapido; I'm not; rather you have been the one singing Kato's praises and dissing Rapido for a specific incident that is in no way related to their n scale offering. I'm not anti Kato; they have a significant amount of my money. They are a fine supplier, worthy of much praise and yes, some critiques and, not without good reason. Conversly Rapido hasn't yet gleened a dollar from me...... It's not really possible to judge Rapido's n scale future because they have only been "in the market for 96 hours" and are yet to deliver a product. Based on their HO liniage I, and many others are eagerly anticipating their first releases; if they deliver what they claim to be capable of they will set the standard for passenger cars in n scale in my, and obviously some other people's minds. The we can see if Con Cor, IMRC and Kato can "keep up".... If they can't deliver on what they said after a fair and objective chance or two, then we can deal with that at a later date. Let's give Jason and Rapido a chance to be judged by their products.
