Gary brings up a good point. Tunnel 16 being curved would be a great place to hide a turnout for a hidden staging area. Tunnel 17 would work as well, and wouldn't be in a tight curve. Perhaps route the spur to run under the scenery, have an opening along the fascia to do the staging swaps. The scenery in South Draw is bowl-like, same with parts of Williams Loop. It would be easy to have the staging area follow the fascia. A slab of plexiglas to prevent the 800 scale foot fall is added to the drawing. Here's a lo-tech pic of that idea:
Ok after a bit of drawing in XTrackCAD (I really like this free little program) I came up with this: I ruled out Tunnel 17 because to keep the grade level would either leave me with little useable length before the mainline curve interferes or I would need to build a shelf outside of the facia and I don't want any protrusions. To loose enough altitude to go under the curve would make the grade in the neighborhood of 5% and also not acceptable. So not there. Tunnel 16 is also out as I have had really bad luck with turnouts on curves in hidden areas and just don't even want to try again. Tunnel 15 is a maybe but I would rather have the trains enter and exit between scenes not in the middle of one as it would look kinda weird with a long coal train magically appearing out of a really short tunnel. This also applies to T16. Tunnel 14 looks like the best bet as it is the lowest point on the layout, it is strait, it is in between scenes and I can get a nice long run without any interference. The only tough part is whether or not I have enough scenery height to cover it up. There is a small gully that comes down between T14 and T15 and I don't know if I can fit it in.... But I think I will try! I think I will be able to use those new clamps I got in after I was all done gluing the splines! Thanks for the inspiration guys!!!
That's a clever solution. I think that will work well for you and hold your interest; and you can stage both an eastbound and westbound train in those tracks. Cheers, Gary
Good call on Tunnel 14 as the exit point. I think you might have to do some creative scenery compression, but it can be done, even without that gully. The gully might be omitted without losing too much scenery fidelity. Make a tunnel for the trains to exit the modeled layout, and the roof of said tunnel being covered in trees, treetops, and painted tree-like colors would easily hide its actual job. How long will Tunnel 14 actually be? How close to the east portal are you willing to put the points of the switch? The farther away from the west portal, the further the trains will be from the mainline, and the easier it will be to hide the hidden staging exit. This is a place where a tighter curve would seem ideal, to maximize the distance away from the mainline the trains will dive under the scenery, but I would advise against going any tighter than about 16" radius. Hidden as it will be, you'll need to have solid easy access to all points of said hidden trackage, lest the inevitable derailment occur where you cannot directly reach. I would go 18" if you run long cars, passenger trains, and large steam engines. 16" is do-able., if you need the tightest practical curve. Here's some views to ponder. There's a view block of trees in this view behind the BNSF GEez: In this view from onboard Amtrak #5 ( the view most viewers will see), that treeline seems to be right up to the ROW. I think the gully is not needed due to this view: A slightly different angle from a new vantage point in the snow shows the topography a bit better. Again, I think the gully can be omitted, and the treeline run almost to the ROW: A vertical view shows the gully, but it kinda flattens out. I say remove the gully, put the treeline closer to the ROW, and moving your scenery ridge closer the rails to hide your hidden staging exit point:
Thanks again for the reference photos Hemi! Another perfect set of shots to help. I played around with my leftover splines and a test switch I had laying around this morning. T14 will be quite a bit longer than the plan shows. I will use a #6 handlaid turnout that will be pretty close to the entrance on the loop side. It looks like it will all come together nicely!
Always glad to help. I have spent considerable time in South Draw. Always wished I spent more time there... One comment: the staging area near what would be Old Tunnel 17 seems to be right atop or below the modeled mainline. Is there significant elevation here that could cover the hidden part? if not, a simple adjustment of the plan to move the mainline inboard a bit (tightening curves a bit) should help.
I just stumbled on this thread the other day. Awesome track plan and overall layout design. The 4'x10' is going viral !!
Thanks John! I have to say it was your "how to's" in the last couple N Scale Railroading magazines that inspired me to get going and build this! Hemi, there is enough elevation to allow the staging yard to go underneath. I have started gluing the splines for the yard in and will take a few photos later tonight.
So after dinner and a movie with my wonderful wife, I took some photos and glued in another spline. Hemi, Here is a shot showing how much clearance there is under the main for the staging: I did end up lowering the staging yard about 3/4" to get the right clearance right here. However I was able to run the grade out all the way back to the switch. This cut the grade down to about 0.5% and is hardly noticable and I dout anything will try to free role on me. Here is a couple showing the switch and the start of staging: And an overall shot showing how the staging fits in: I am planning on having 2 staging tracks on about 1 1/2" centers. With the spline I glued in tonight, I have the outer one done. To get to the desired spacing, I will now sandwich in a layer of 3/4" plywood, and start on the next 4 splines. I am really liking how the staging yard is turning out! Thanks Gary and Hemi for the ideas to get me thinking outside the box and including this very handy bit of trackwork! Now for a funny shot of Clamp City!
I think you nailed it (Liquid Nails? Nevermind...). Great job! What is the ruling grade on the modeled mainline? 2%? You really got some mileage outta staging, about 10' or so? Very nice. I'm so stoked to see your progress, I'm getting motivated to work on my layout again.
Clamp City indeed! Looks like you got yours at the same place I did...Harbor Freight Tools! Splined Masonite subroadbed rules! I will never again build subroadbed any other way. The added staging will be a great addition to your layout. I had a friend of mine gift me with about eight pieces of 3" thick pink, dense Styrofoam 2 X 8's which are going to get carved into the Echo Sandstone cliffs at Echo Utah in the 1950's sometime this month. Other scenes getting carved will be the tilted rock cliffs at the twin Warren truss bridges and tunnels at Taggarts and the Devil's Slide center siding in Weber Canyon. Can't wait to see ya start carving scenery! It might be too late, but I see nobody commented on "layout height" in answer to your question on page one. My son and I messed around with railhead to floor height for our new modular layout concept and decided on 52" as the ideal height for us. I'm 6'0" and he's 5' 10". The increase in my old module height (6") made a HUGE difference in the modules and my layout...almost like having new modules, and much more details are visible now, as well as putting trains on the track is a lot easier for both his young eyes and my old ones. Nice work, and it's coming right along! Cheers! Bob Gilmore Cheers! Bob Gilmore
Thanks guys, I've been sitting idle too long so I have lots of motivation right now! Hemi, there is a profile on page 2, post 16. The loop side ended up at 1.9% and south draw is 2.2%. Both very close to prototype. Staging actually came closer to 12 on the outer track. Bob, I actually got the orange ones off Ebay for $0.55 a piece, and the yellow ones from Home Depot. I agree , I don't think I can make my subroadbed out of plywood or anything else again! The splines are really fun and give amazing results. As far as height, I can always cut a few inches off later so I'll wait to see if it is too tall once I get scenery going. So far it is just the right height to work on. Thanks for the thoughts!
A little steeper than the actual WP--IIRC, the WP maintained a 1% max grade over its entire mainline. At least they did thru most of it. Not sure about the loop. Still nice. I might try splines someday. How do you plan on building the scenery? Foam? Hardshell and screen?
I toyed with a wider loop to get her down closer to that 1%, however it would have been about 7' in diameter and needed a 75 car train to cross over it's self (My favorite thing about a loop!) As is a 35 car coal train is needed to cross over it's self. So I called 1.9 close enough. I might have been able to shave another 0.1% off but elected for a 2" clearance top of rail to bottom of cork. This leaves me enough room to build the tunnel lining. As for scenery, I have always done foam. A bit more expensive but with more control of the finished product.
I think you have a good product now, no need to revise it. A 35 car coalie will look great in South Draw. Just add manned helpers!
Little snow and a bunch of projects to get done enabled us to start up the maintenance side of the LC&S Railroad a month early this week. This is my other model railroad in 1:1 scale! Here is a couple shots off my front porch: We stripped the old rotten oak decks off the flat cars and will be re-decking with new oak soon. Tons of fun torching the old bolts off and prying up the old, albeit still heavy, 3x8 planks. I know they were at least 30 years old, probably more like 40 or 50 years old! We also plowed what little snow is left off the line on Thursday. Always fun MU'ing our 2 GP9's together and watching the snow fly! Derek, my boss and brother-in-law, engineered on the way up plowing about 9 miles, and I engineered them on the return back down to town. Nothing like getting your hand on the throttle again. As such I haven't had as much time to work on the layout. However I was able to finish up the splines for the staging yard and start laying cork!
