Would You Come See This Railroad?

I live in a small community that has been dependent upon the timber industry throughout history, but the economy has been devastated by the virtual shutdown of the industry. About the only think that the area's political leaders can come up with to boost the economy is tourism.

Recently, a few of us model railroaders came up with the idea of each business in town building a small railroad display or module in their individual stores to give the town a theme. It would be interesting because John Day, Oregon, has never had an operating railroad. There is a narrow gauge tourist line (the Sumpter Valley Railway) just over 50 miles away, which at one time came as close as 13 miles from John Day. The Oregon & Northwestern Railroad used to serve Seneca, Oregon, which is 25 miles to the south.

At this time, we are working with the owner/operator of the local Dairy Queen to build a layout in his restaurant. We'd like to hear what some of you think of the idea. Of course, we know that you are a little biased; but then you would be the people that would make something like this work anyway.

Anybody have any thoughts on such a project? How far out of your way would you go to see something like this? Have at it!

Pat

 

I think that this is a great idea and one that I have seen done in parts of Pennsylvania. I have even seen train setups in some restops on the Pennsylvania Turnpike. It's rail heritage is everywhere and definately enhances a meal or shopping when there is such a display......but then again, I am biased

Russ

 

It sure is an attention getter! Mom and Dad used to take me to down town Wichita just to see the trains set up in the store windows. Some of the stores didn't even sell toys at all.

There is or was an old roundhouse that had been converted into a resturant out in California, that had the cooks in the center, and booths all around the outer edges of the building. You ordered your food from a phone, and it was delivered by a train to your booth. It was expensive, but did a lot of business, and children were welcome.

There are several cafes here in the Metroplex that have trains running while you eat there.

Its a good idea, and brings in customers.

 

Watash, any idea where that roundhouse was? If you can give me a close guess I'll go look for it.

Russ

 

We have several restaraunts here in Cincinnati that have O and G scale trains suspended from the cieling. I've not seen an entire town with layouts in most of the businesses. Although I have'n seen it, does'nt mean it can't be done.

If you build it they will come.

Promoted properly, that is.

 

That's kinda what we figured. The owner of the Dairy Queen wants to have the railroad up and running, fully scenicked, by Memorial Day. That's a little too late to get a lot of publicity out in time for the summer tourist trade, but maybe we can at least get the August crowd. I'm planning on sending notices, with photos, to Model Railroader, and maybe some of the other magazines, plus press releases to the Oregonian (the Portland newspaper) and other papers in major cities.

Once we get the first railroad up and running, we're hoping the other businesses in town will want to join in. There really isn't a cohesive tourist theme in the area, except maybe promoting the beautiful scenery in the area (if you look past all the black trees that burned last summer) and the gold mining history in Canyon City, just to the south.

Then maybe we could extend the old Sumpter Valley from Prairie City to John Day, after a hiatus of over 100 years...

Pat

 

Well, I'd definatly go, so you'd get at least one blizzard customer off of it.


The entire state seems to think tourism is the answer to its woes. although I also heard rumours about reopening some closed timber processing to offset the loss of tech jobs.

 

The Sumpter Valley was abandoned in 1947, shortly after the end of World War II. The newer engines, 2-6-6-2s from the Uintah, were shipped to Central America. Just about everything else was scrapped or left to rust.

In the past 10 years or so, a group of railfans began to rebuild the railroad from Sumpter to Dredge, about 3 miles in length. They've been able to accomplish quite a bit, restoring one logging engine (a Heiser) and a number of passenger cars and a caboose. They've also been able to reclaim a 2-8-2 from the White Pass & Yukon, and it's being restored now.

The line into Prairie City was abandoned back in 1933, and the right-of-way from Sumpter to Prairie City over Dixie Summit has been reclaimed by the Forest Service. I seriously doubt any environmentalists would allow a railroad to be rebuilt over that portion of the line. They've been able to decimate the timber industry here with lawsuit after lawsuit.

As far as I know, no right-of-way was ever surveyed between Prairie City and John Day. It could be done, but the ROW would have to be purchased from local ranchers, and that would get expensive fast.

A different idea I had today, was to build an 1-1/2"-to-the-foot railroad at the fairgrounds, or somewhere close by (even the lot below my house would work ) and use that to attract more tourists. It would fit in with the train theme ("The Railroads Have Finally Reached John Day!") and would be considerably less expensive to build. I have a friend in Prineville, just two hours west, who would be more than willing to bring his homebuilt Galloping Goose to run up here!

I'm always trying to make this idea better and better!

Pat

 

I like the sound of the idea but I don't know if it would be practical.

Please don't be upset, I'm a train guy - on your side. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

What happens after the tourists visit the trains in the Dairy Queen for an hour or two? There needs to be something else in the town for them to do - for the town to survive off of tourist spending. That's your problem in the first place isn't it? Nothing to do in your town? What reason do the tourists have to stay in the town and spend money for hours or days? You can only look at trains for so long (I can't believe I just said that ). With your plan, the trains would be the draw to get the tourists to come. Once that happens, what do you have to offer them to make them stay?

Love your idea, just being objective. I think that you're thinking "romantically". Trains are great, but they aren't the magic solution to all of the worlds problems. But who knows - if used in the right way, they can help.

Please pardon me. I'm an Engineer (Systems) by trade and I've been trained (no pun intended) to think logically. You could say I have a 1-track-mind Oh God, I'm killing myself here. Hehe.

Jas

 

I was going to mention the Pennsylvania area as well (they even have Steam Loco license plates!!). One of the things you may want to consider is linking railroad sites around the area -- perhaps create a brochure with several "local" attractions, or a planned itenerary (like in PA - the Strasburg RR offers steam train rides, while across the street is the PA. Railroad Museum, down the street is the Choo-Choo Barn (model railroad) and there are several other RR attractions within a short drive (and even more within a days' ride (like the East Broad Top, and several mine rides - both into the mine and around on the surface). Don't forget that railroaders also have spouses and often children, and sometimes they aren't as into trains... so include other attractions as well. Include a hotel and restaurant (or two or three...) as "base stations" for exploring the area. Also take advantage of your history -- does the Oregon Trail pass anywhere nearby?

 

If you could get that logging RR to lay tracks a little closer to your town, I think that would be great too!

When you do tourism, you must run the gammit. Maybe some mini-golf....go-carts....etc.

Russ

 

Greenshirt
I think the roundhouse restaurant was on the outskirts of San Fransisco, but may have been destroyed in the last quake, I'm not sure.

AKrrnut
When you make the individual store layouts, be sure to have a model of THAT store (Like the Dairy Queen) on the layout in a prominent place easily seen. You will want it to have at least one continuously running train, or two, one steam and one diesel and colorful cars. Have the trains on separate tracks, with no turnouts or crossings between to prevent wrecks. Have a Lexan (non-breakable) shield to prevent little fingers from causing damage, and so little people can not get hurt while watching and wanting to play with the trains. Make the display low enough so the kids can see the trains without having to be held up by an adult to see, or place wide platform for them to stand on, with bannisters to hold on to and prevent falling off of if pushed out of the way by another child. Remember to have at least one milk car and a box car with the Dairy Queen logo and name on them too. Provide a place where a child can stand for their photo with the layout! Tourists love photos, and it is good advertizing that is free.
Dairy Queen may want to serve: "Conductor's Chocolate nut sundaye", "Engineer's Cheeze Burger", etc. on the menu to attract the kiddies.

It would also draw attention, to place a "You Are Here" sign/map above each layout so tourists could see where other stores with layouts and other attractions are relative to "where you are" now. The signs could be less expensive than printing a lot of throw away paper that would become litter.

I have seen a kiddy ride that had small rail cars for one child to ride on, that had hand operated cranks (like bicycle pedals) that drove one set of wheels below. The little tracks were light angle iron with the wheels riding on the inside flat surface, and captured by the up-right flange of the angle irons outside the wheels. The wheels were only about 5" diameter, so the kids could not crank them fast enough to tip over or go too fast. The angle iron was easily rolled into curves and fastened to concrete "ties" in a laxy serpentine trackwork that gave the kid a three to five minnute ride. The cars were painted various colors. It was non poluting, and needed no power except exercise for the child. The cars were lifted off out of the way if no child was ready to ride on.

You have a good idea, the City Council might get behind.

Nothing ventured, etc.....

[ 27. February 2003, 19:40: Message edited by: watash ]

 

Jas,

Don't feel bad about shooting holes in our idea - that's why we've posted it on this forum, and several others besides! We would like to have the best concept possible.

There are several museums in the John Day area, plus a number of antique stores. I suspect all the antiques have to be imported from outside the valley - I can't believe there's that much junk still around! The Sumpter Valley tourist railway is about 40 miles to the east, so it's within easy driving range. The Oregon Trail didn't come closer than Baker City, 70 miles east, so we can't really tie into that too easily, although The Dalles Military Road (another old wagon road) passed right through John Day on the way to Canyon City, just south of us.

Watash,

The DQ railroad is already well underway! It's based on the old Oregon & Northwestern Railroad, which ran from Seneca (about 25 miles south, and 2000' up) 70 miles south to Hines, and a connection with a UP branch. It's designed to run one train at a time for display, although Pete (the owner of DQ) is adding a provision for prototypical operation (after hours, of course!), since it will be featuring the lumber mill in Seneca, and the huge storage sheds in Hines. I think they were about 1400' long! We plan on Lexan shields, and either a Lexan or netting top, so people can't drop french fries on the railroad. We're planning on having it easily viewed by children (I have five who will be dragging me down all the time). Pete's drooling at the idea of DQ cars, but I still need to get my ALPS printer working right.

The "You Are Here" sign is a good idea, although I thought we might give each person a handout, with a list of things to find from each railroad...not that we'll say what's one any specific one! That way, they'll have a reason to see each one. I can't believe people would spend a couple hours at DQ watching the railroad, unless they stay to have lunch, then dessert too! Of course, I think that's part of the whole idea...

Pat

 

I once worked for a Box and Finishing Printer. We made several Menus as handouts for the (then) New Theme Parks. The front had the Logo and Park Name and a color street map with each site of interest named and a number at its location. There were map coordinates around the map. Inside the cover was a rather large "You are Here" dot which each was printed on the menus of the different stores. There was a peel-away strip on each menu, which allowed the cover map to act as a cover with the menu glued inside, but the bare menu could also be used as a handout less the cover if desired.

Some menus were for food, some for the zoo amimals, and like that, like a product list for a particular location. We also made and cut the punch-out animals, houses, cars, trucks, trains, and paper dolls for the kiddies. We made hats (like Long John Silver's Pirate hat) and other give-away items.

We also printed mailable post cards for advertizing the Parks.

 

I am working on the Oregon & Northwestern Railroad layout with Pat for the owner of the local Dairy Queen. I have posted a few pictures of the project in my photo album on Railroad-Line.com in the "Projects" group of photos.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/photo_album_cat.asp?sqldtl=353

I planned to take more photos of the work done last night, but my digital camera was brain dead. (or was that the owner) The battery needed to be recharged. I'll try to get some pictures today.

The album is mostly photos of the large UP layout we are building in Canyon City.

[ 04. March 2003, 14:41: Message edited by: upguy ]

 

UPGuy, it looks like you are constructing the DQ layout off site. Looks like a good job too, by the way!

If you are going to finish it where it is, how have you planned to transport it and set it up at the Dairy Queen store?

Have you calculated its weight? Can two men lift and carry it, or will you need to mount some temporary wheels or casters to get it through door ways?

When you haul it, be sure to lash it down tight to the floor of the truck ot trailer you haul it on. That way the springs of the vehicle will take the shock out of the bumps. If the layout is just sitting on the floor, and a bump is hit, the layout will be thrown into the air off the floor of the bed, and will come down hard enough to break things loose on the layout.
I learned this from piano movers.

(If access is all around the layout, (not shoved up next to a wall or window), then your main power cord will need to run along the floor covered by a protective strip to meet city codes for foot traffic.

If there is a floor outlet, then you might be able to place the layout over it for protection.

or....

Have you located a wall ouylet close to where the layout will be placed? It would be handy to run the main power cord down the leg that will be the closest to that outlet. Use wire ties to capture the cord set to hold it in place down along the leg to the floor.

Are you going to provide a closed cabinet under the layout top for storage, or hang drapes to hide stuff under the layout?

 

The last thing we need to do is try to build this layout onsite! There's no way we could keep wandering fingers off it!

The layout comes apart into three sections: one square section at each end (4x4), and the long middle section, about 8x3. The railroad will be against a short wall, so there's only going to be access on three sides. There is electricity available, so we don't need to run a cord where someone might trip over it...

We got most of the track layed on Monday night, should finish this coming weekend. Then comes scenery! Buildings are progressing slowly, since I can't build anything at home (too much help! ). Fortunately, I can go to work to get stuff done!

Pat

 

I think it may be time for an update on this project, so I bumped it to the top of the list.

The Dairy Queen layout has been operational for years now, and it has been very successful. (IMHO) Probably the smartest thing that was done was the installing of a push button that activated a short section of track. The rest of the layout's track is "hot" all the time, but the short section has to have the button held in to make the train go. The train makes a lap around the layout and stops at the short section unless the button is being held in. It has increased the engine life span and encourages interaction by the public. Kids of all ages love it.

The idea of getting other businesses to follow with modules or layouts in their stores hasn't gotton off the ground, but several individuals have tried to stir up interest in live steam. At least one small business is custom building cars for live steamers. Plans for a live steam park come up, but usually die for want of financing.

So far the only other model railroad activity that has the potential to draw tourists to the area is opening this summer in Canyon City. Just how successful this venture may be is still to be determined. It started out as a club, but I have become the principal owner. I have posted a link to the Facebook page in my signature. The idea is still in development and I would like to have feedback. Thanks.