I could have put this in the thread about the Genesis SD70M, but I thought, better its own topic. And this certainly isn't the first time we've had the conversation, but I had a bit of a revelation this morning that I want to share. One of the issues with being a modeler of the Diesel era is that diesels, unless discussing certain yard switching and very very small branches are almost always in MU. In fact, even a regional like say Portland and Western has very few trains running with 1 engine. A minimum of 2 is typical on all but the smallest operation. So, if your dream railroad is intended to represent the norm and is anything but an old branch, you need multiples of most engines. AAAAAND, for those of us interested in representing a larger roster, that could mean many multiple units. When I run my SP Wood products train at the club. I demand a minimum of 3 engines and there really should be 4 or 5 to conquer the Siskyous. So when I go looking for engines I need, I'm not looking for just 1. I'm looking for multiples. So obviously, that alone calls for RTR over Genesis. But there's more to it. If I need 3 SD40-2s and I want them to be high detail, sure, It won't save me money, in the long run, to buy RTR and upgrade. But that's the long run. I don't have to spend the cash up front. pop in a $20 DH123 and I've got a working DCC engine on the layout. Then maybe another RTR unit comes off and goes into the "shop" to get some upgrades. And then another gets a sound decoder and then eventually, that new RTR engine gets it's turn. I personally have tons of diesel projects like that both for engines in service, and more complex "kitbashes" I plan. So I can appreciate those that want Genesis. And frankly, I wish I could afford it too. But what I want more, is the ability to afford the number of units I need versus the high level of detail. And that's a big difference. I mention Bachman in this thread specifically for their new ACe. I frankly don't know why they made it and I can't explain why it's sold out. There were already 2 manufacturers of that unit. What was the point? but an ACe or GEVO priced down around $100? they would have sold tons of them. Also, Sadly, it looks like Bachmann discontinued their Dash8 in HO (not in the product list on the site) this makes me sad, because they were easily one of the best values for a late 80s to current mainline diesel. At least in theory Athearn RTR and Kato still have the Dash9.