Why I don't like CN loco's, yet am CN fan

rsn48 Mar 20, 2001

  1. rsn48

    rsn48 TrainBoard Member

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    I have a friend whom I meet with every Friday at another buddies home to run HO trains. He is in the servicing department for CN, in management. The good news for him is he is very close to retirenment, but he is very hostile to CN upper management right now. What he has been telling me is basically appalling; as you will recognize.

    Apparently CN like everyone else has decided to cut costs to the bare minimum. It used to do regular 10 year major maintance on every bridge it owned, but this has been cut out. No bridge maintaince unless it HAS to have it. Sidings across Canada are being torn out, without thought to the consequences of some.

    Last year my friend was told to stop maintaince on the fuel injectors of all engines that come into Vancouver. This year he is told to "minimize" the use of lubricant in the engine. As my buddy said: "What happens to a car engine if you cut back on lubricant." Shifts have been switched and switched again. Now he is on three on and three off, but he is in his fifties and doing the graveyards just isn't easy anymore. BUT, everyone in his department across Canada is 39 years old or higher, all the junior ages were cut. He says CN will enter a down turn and cut, but then they don't add on when they rebound, then they hit another down turn and cut, but don't add on again in the rebounds. Consequently there are no "young" new employees. So the company has decided that the three on and off, has added hundreds of work hours to the year without additional employee hirings. But it is older guys working these swing shifts; he says he has seen mistakes and confused brains trying to solve problems that were much easier when they weren't into sleep deprivation.

    So where is this headed, and what has it got to do with the loco's. Well, he says CN doesn't repaint engines unless in an accident. They don't do any painting unless they absolutely have to. All the painting of engines for CN is done by the manufacture and no further paint is added now. And that is why many of the engines don't appeal to me. When I said they looked to weathered and didn't hold up, I didn't realize that meant no paint...ever.

    The CN bridge at Cisco in British Columbia is in obvious need of paint and refurbushing, but it just isn't being done. Unfortunately somewhere in Canada, some engineer is going to pay with his life for the irresponsibility of upper management.
     
  2. E&NRailway

    E&NRailway TrainBoard Member

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    The huge bridges over Niagara and Arbutus Canyons on Vancouver Island(ENR) are exactly like the Cisco bridge on the CNR, CP has neglected to maintain these bridges unless absolutely necessary, that was before 1999. Now Rail America is carrying on with that tradition. It's odd because the Niagara Canyon Bridge is the oldest in Canada of its type still in daily use. It was originally on the CPR at Cisco! Built in 1884, and sent to the E&N in 1909. [​IMG]
     
  3. Dave Winter

    Dave Winter TrainBoard Member

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    Sad but I see this everywhere. If this management style was uneque to CN, or the rail industry for that matter, there would be a revolt. Truth is, it doesn't take a great deal of brains to run a company this way. Nuff said...
     
  4. E&NRailway

    E&NRailway TrainBoard Member

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    Here's the Pacific Wilderness Excursion train on the Arbutus Canyon bridge, you can see the rust and primer.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Gentlemen, I do not think your situation is unique! My small window onto the railroad world shows a very similar mentality growing towards maintenance budgets and personnel.

    The 150 miles of CSX between New Orleans and Mobile is 79/60 mph, 134# welded rail. About 25% of the ties are replaced every 5 years - as required by the FRA. However, the last time crews came through in '97, they left the track profile far worse than they found it. It was as if no one on the tie/ballast crew, from the Super on down, cared how the profile ended up, as long as "at least 3000 ties get replaced each day!" (This last is a near-quote from the Super!) It's really sad to watch C44's and SD-70's bounce to spring limits at 50 mph, especially at our more than 125 grade crossings. I feel sorry for the guys up front, more now that CN-Dave has developed such a kindred spirit with the TrainBoard.

    Also up until about seven years ago, cracks in rail heads were repaired or replaced regularly. Since then, the rail has to develop a severe vertical crack before it gets replaced. Weld "flakes" on the rail head do not seem to warrant much concern any more, no matter that the resulting hollows may grow to more than 1/2 inch deep. There are two such areas behind my house where the hollows are more than 1/2 inch below the normal head plane and continuing to grow. Twice I have spoken to Track Inspectors when they were at the sites. Each time they agreed that the areas did not look good, but that the Section did not have any budget to replace rail until the cracks began to grow down the web.

    Perhaps I am being paranoid. But I watched Penn-Central management destroy two great systems by deferring maintenance to emergencies only, and Patrick McGinnis strip the life blood from the New Haven, Boston & Maine, and Maine Central. I'm worried that, now that railroads are becoming profitable again, we are going to see another round of greedy investors and management - one more time !!

    I sure hope not, North American needs its railroads, Hank
     
  6. Alan

    Alan Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    It seems that we in the UK are not alone in neglecting our rail infastructure :(
     
  7. DaveCN5710

    DaveCN5710 Profile Locked

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    Sometimes I can't figure management out at CN myself and I have been employed here for 8 years .

    I don't always agree with what CN does but I look at it like this . I am just a employee , I don't make suggestions , thats not my job .

    My job is to run trains safely and do what I am told :D Even though if I think it is stupid .

    Railroad management tend to have no feelings towards their employees , what is important is that the freight gets moved on time and safely .

    If I was running a business I would probably make cut backs too if needed , I would want whats best financially for the company .

    Paint jobs on the units to me is not that big of a deal , what I am more concerned with is the working conditions inside the locomotive cab , and that the units run the way they should .

    CN is a very good place to work to support yourself and a family . You get paid well . We are among the highest paid railroad employees around .

    Basically I just go to work and do the best I can given the circumstances , sometimes , or alot of times I don't agree with management but thats life .
     
  8. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Well said Dave. I guess that rail fans, me included, want "our" railroads to look neat, clean, and pretty so we can get good photos and be "proud". But most of us really don't know what it takes to run the company and make a profit, however small.

    Let's face, there are more and bigger trains running today than there were 10 years ago. Railroads are buying new engines and cars, and expanding trackage, and trying to keep it all running safely ... and that takes money!!! It's just like our home budgets, we can't pay for everything all at once.

    Hank
     
  9. rsn48

    rsn48 TrainBoard Member

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    CN copied the military when it first set up operations. It was famous for its military like stance. However, like many good Canadians who are ignorant about the military (but consider themselves experts...lol), what is copied is not what is happening in the military. If CN copied the military, you would receive much better treatment. The military has long ago figured out that "people" are a valuable resource; CN hasn't (this statement from the eyes of two generations of CN engineers in the family).
     
  10. E&NRailway

    E&NRailway TrainBoard Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...I would want whats best financially for the company .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You're right, I guess the E&N forgoes on MOW as long as they can because the company is always on the verge of bankrupcy, thanks to Canadian Pacific.
     
  11. DaveCN5710

    DaveCN5710 Profile Locked

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    Don't get me wrong guys , I agree with alot of stuff your saying . CN has made some decisions in the last couple of years that I cannot figure out . I think they were bad decisions , for instance , taking out alot of track here in Michigan on the main corridor between Toronto & Chicago :rolleyes:

    CN merges with th IC and they let the guy in charge of the IC , Illinois Centralize the Grand Trunk , I cannot figure it out , why tear out main-line track and make it single track when we run ALOT of trains at all times of the day . My philosophy on this issue is , trains do not make money sitting in sidings waiting , your wasting fuel and time , I cannot believe Paul Tellier let this Hunter Harrion former IC President come here and strong arm CN the way he did .

    Now the new tunnel at Port Huron Sarnia , that is a great decision . Your saving time by not have to ferry high cubes and multi level cars across the river , the new tunnel can handle double stack containers as well . The new tunnel cost Port Huron all their yard jobs , they simply did not need anymore yard jobs after the new tunnel .

    The new tunnel being built may have cost some jobs , well it did , but you could also look at it another way , it has generated more business due to increased transit times , more new customers , the list goes on .

    Very touchy subjects ;)

    Now this motive power issue :D Thanks for your comments Hank :cool: I never looked at it like that before , maybe now I will [​IMG]

    [ 20 March 2001: Message edited by: Davecn5623 ]
     
  12. rsn48

    rsn48 TrainBoard Member

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    VERY TOUCHY SUBJECTS.....


    Only kind to talk about....more fun...but I am cognizant that they strike at the heart of what you are doing. After two generations of over 90 years of CN engineering, you can guess where my vote goes.

    The reason I am angry is that we all know that when you let maintance go, it comes back in your face many times over in terms of costs. So the dollar you save today is the one hundred dollar expense tomorrow.
     
  13. DaveCN5710

    DaveCN5710 Profile Locked

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rsn48:
    VERY TOUCHY SUBJECTS.....


    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We could go on and on and on and on about railroad management :rolleyes: It's a never ending story , anyways I said what I had to say and those are my final thoughts on these issues . It's like beating a dead horse so to speak . I hear it everyday @ work , I come here to relax :D
     
  14. Dave Winter

    Dave Winter TrainBoard Member

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    All points are well taken, and I know this forum is dedicated to my (our) favourate railway, but decisions re maintenance, or lack of it, ARE simply the new corporate philosophy.

    I spent 35 years in the air traffic control world and I learned to always ask "What if..." **** happens and you'd just better be ready for it. That planning cost money. That planning saved lives.

    After that career ended I spent 5 years in "privet industry". This is were men were men and inovations were welcome and the customer drove the decision makers etc etc. What crap?? As Quality Control Manager I was constantly up against the "get it out the door" mentality. "Never mind that..No-one will notice...Nothing will go wrong" Maintenance costs big money and in the real workd it's the shareholders pockets that make those decisions. Not the customer.

    After those five years I "retired" again only to fine myself in an entirelly different industry, part time, as an advisor. Same thing. Three year old buildings and systems are falling down around us and nothing gets repaired unless it's really needed. And "needed" means a decision by the ownership team on whether to replace the plumbing or send their kids to hockey school.

    So........

    Sorry to be such a downer.
    Dave
     
  15. DaveCN5710

    DaveCN5710 Profile Locked

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    This may be a bit off topic but I hope the CN and BN do merge someday .

    I just think of all the extra business that it would create , more trains = more work = job security .

    Anyone have a opinion on this issue ??
     
  16. Robin Matthysen

    Robin Matthysen Passed Away October 17, 2005 In Memoriam

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    Here in Georgetown I see regular maintenace going on tothe old bridge across the Credit river. It is the only single track section on this double track line so is a real bottleneck. I guess CN believes it must be maintained or lose the line. Some old sidings have been removed in Georgetown and it makes sense that they were taken out because they weren't being used anymore. Then CN put up a great big fence which now prevents GO commuters from getting to the station from one side of town. They now have to drive around to the other side wher parking is inadequate. I suppose it was for liability reasons and to provide a degree of security to GO trains that are parked here over night and on weekends. Oh well, I just see all this and am pleased I am no longer a comuter. Who needs it?
     
  17. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Dave,
    A merger of CN and BNSF could be a two-edged sword. On the down-side you could have the same mess that occurred in Houston, TX and other major centers for the first few years after the UP/SP merger.

    OR - since BNSF goes into Pensacola, FL on the old Frisco, you could get a run-through (all the way from PH??) and give your family a great vacation on the warm, snow-free(!)Florida Gulf Coast :D

    Hank
     
  18. DaveCN5710

    DaveCN5710 Profile Locked

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    Well now I hear that CN wants CSX's east coast , I imagine we are talking Florida as well :confused:
     
  19. rsn48

    rsn48 TrainBoard Member

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    Unlike other American mergers, CN and BNSF have been co-operating a lot together for the past couple of years, but it seems every 6 months the relationship gets even tighter. You wouldn't have the bottle necks because they are in two different regions of the country for the majority of their runs.

    Don't misinterpret my statements though, I don't want to see a BNSF/CN merger as it would be the end of CN as a distinct Canadian identity.

    Fortunately for us, the American authorities haven't been able to figure out that it would be a different kind of merger and will continue to kibash it.
     
  20. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Uh, RSN48 ... I hate to break this to you, but CN already goes into New Orleans, LA, and a whole bunch of other places all over the Central and Southern US. I don't know how the size of the old IC compared to CN when they merged, but I guess now you would have to call CN the "Mainline 0f Mid-America" . :rolleyes:
     

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