Warning - Here We Go Again !!!!

Hytec Sep 4, 2009

  1. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Published in today's (9/3/09) Trains Online Newswire.....

    I accept that the announcement sounds innocent enough on the surface. However, expecting the general public or rent-a-cop to know the difference between a casual railfan standing on an overpass taking pictures of multiple locomotives and/or trains in a yard, and a terrorist standing on an overpass taking pictures of multiple locomotives and/or trains in a yard is stretching good sense and logic a bit far....:tb-mad:

    Homeland Security chief: Report "suspicious photographers"

    Published: Thursday, September 03, 2009

    WASHINGTON — Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano this week suggested citizens should call law enforcement when they see someone taking a picture of "critical infrastructure." Photographing rail lines from public property remains perfectly legal, but Napolitano suggests citizens should call police anyway.

    "One of the things we ask people to do," Napolitano told Fox News, "is when they see something unusual, if they see, for example, somebody continually taking photographs of a piece of critical infrastructure that doesn't seem to make any sense … to report that to local law enforcement so it can be followed up on."
     
  2. OC Engineer JD

    OC Engineer JD Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Geez....how sad is that! :(
     
  3. virgule

    virgule TrainBoard Member

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    That comment does not make sense. I'm reporting that! Why do you hate america so much?:tb-wacky:
     
  4. Mike VE2TRV

    Mike VE2TRV TrainBoard Member

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    Now who is more insane, those who they're supposed to protect us from, or those who are trying to protect us? Pretty soon it's going to be like in those dictatorship-led countries where they throw you in jail for taking a picture of a nondescript building...
     
  5. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    The reason we are here today, is due to the fact schools do not teach world history. If they did, people would quickly shut down this nonsense! The concept of spy on, turn in suspicious, watch your neighbor is so easily abused, and has been, repeatedly. That's the dark underbelly of it all- Hidden in the disguise of "protecting" us.

    Boxcab E50
     
  6. Scott Stutzman

    Scott Stutzman TrainBoard Member

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    ????:tb-sad:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2009
  7. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    What do you not understand about the utterly stupid concept our "leadership" wants?

    Boxcab E50
     
  8. MP333

    MP333 TrainBoard Supporter

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    I've met Napalitano. Firing off a letter today. ***angry but professional***...
     
  9. DCESharkman

    DCESharkman TrainBoard Member

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    Well....

    "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose"

    Are we there yet?
     
  10. Scott Stutzman

    Scott Stutzman TrainBoard Member

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    Oh, I understand what they want. I had to remove what I thought about it. And you are So right about "Stupid"...... I can think of other words to put with it also.
     
  11. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Gentlemen,

    The hobby of railfanning, while absolutely legal and not forbidden in normal settings (not trespassing on private property) by any written ordinance, is not well understood by John Q. Public. In these post-9/11 times, it also has come under the spotlight of some who, mistakenly given positions of authority, use that authority as a club to harrass those folks pursuing the hobby.

    Not all law enforcement officials or so-called "rent-a-cops" act like Barney Fife wannabes and overuse their authority- thankfully, few do. But coupled with these few overenthusiastic persons and ignorant policies from public officials with tunnel vision that excludes common sense, we railfans have been wrongfully turned into potential terrorists.

    I would suggest that Ms. Napolitano be told about such publications as Trains, Railfan & Railroad, CTC Board, and other, as well as the many railroad videos by such companies as Pentrex and Green Frog. I would also suggest that Ms. Napolitano actuall look at some of these materials, and actually include a little common sense into her next memo.

    Buffalo Springfield said it best:

    "Paranoia strikes deep
    Into your hearts it must creep,
    It starts when you're always afraid,
    Step out of line, the Man comes and takes you away."
     
  12. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    It's downright scary.

    Then you have the undefined, and in reality undefinable "critical infrastructure" factor.

    :thumbs_down:

    Boxcab E50
     
  13. SteamDonkey74

    SteamDonkey74 TrainBoard Supporter

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    I still don't understand the paranoia about someone photographing something. With image capture devices on cell phones, someone plotting a terrorist attack need not risk all the attention he or she may receive with a fancy camera when a simple shot made with a cell phone camera will do the trick.

    In urban design there is this concept of "eyes on the street" as being a good thing. The more people you have moving along the sidewalks and interacting the less you have in the way of the sorts of crime that relies on people not being around - robberies, assaults, rapes, etc. As railfans, we are some of the few "eyes on the street" of the nation's rail infrastructure, and I would be happy to explain that to any police officer, sheriff's deputy, federal marshall, railroad cop, or security guard. Taking photos is not a crime.
     
  14. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    A good friend of mine is Captain/Regional Manager for the UPRR Police Department. We have him come out to talk at the two railroad museums that I am associated with for various events like railfan weekends. The last time he was out to the Rosenberg museum he had an awesome slide show of his own railroad photographs. Of course he has access to many places most of us don't. He stressed that as long as you stay off railroad property, the UP police will not give you problems. He points out that if you are questioned by some local Barny Fife type you should have some railfan magazines with you to show examples of what you are doing and to always be polite. Most are easily satisfied and let you continue as long as you stay safe. In the rare occasions where they are being a jerk, you should just back down and go somewhere else. There are always other days and other places.
     
  15. EricB

    EricB TrainBoard Member

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again - terrorist don't care about infrastructure in this country. There aren't too many examples of terrorists going after infrastructure. The only one I can think of would be the Iraqi oil fields. And I think that was done more to hurt their enemy than a terrorist attack. It would be absolutely worthless to them to blow up a bridge or tunnel just to attack our infrastructure. If we lost a bridge, yes it would cause an inconvenience, but it wouldn't really have a major impact on us as a nation. They really want to destroy what could be in the tunnel or on the bridge - and that is Americans.

    The resources required for such an undertaking would be massive and quite frankly they could get more bang for their buck elsewhere. Talk to a combat engineer and ask how hard it is to take down enough of a bridge at once to cause mass casualties. Terrorist wouldn't waste their time or money. Instead, they would go for the soft targets. They have a better chance of mass casualities and to cause sensationalism that way.

    Eric
     
  16. MP333

    MP333 TrainBoard Supporter

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    Letter written, signed, in the mail. :mad:
     
  17. PacRail

    PacRail TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well I too have met Janet and worked for the state of Arizona when she was the Governor. She doesn't take too kindly to anyone pointing out a mistake she has made, or is about to make. I would also suggest sending a copy of your letters to your members of Congress.
     
  18. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Then I suggest she put on her big-girl panties and get over it- not everything she does is going to be right.
     
  19. Mike VE2TRV

    Mike VE2TRV TrainBoard Member

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    To be more precise, what's being gradually implemented is the Inquisition, witch hunts, Big Brother and the Gestapo all rolled into one. And I know what the Gestapo is about - my parents were in Europe during WWII and had to deal with that. Everyone watching everyone else, ready to rat them out, or denouncing people on bogus charges just for personal vendettas. The same thing happened during the Inquisition and the witch hunts.

    Now it's just a different kind of witch.

    That's what they don't teach in history classes. If people knew more about history than just dates, names and places, governments would have a much harder time ramming this sort of garbage down our throats.
     
  20. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    That's exactly what I'm talking about.

    Boxcab E50
     

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