WAB Wabash in Iowa..

gcav17 Feb 12, 2014

  1. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    I recently came across some Platt maps that shows the Wabash operating west out of Des Moines to Clive, Adel, tthen swinging north to Fonda Ia. But what I have found is that that line was originally the Des Moines, Adel &Western Railroad in 1873.. So did the Wabash have track rights? Or whats the other explanation.? Since the line ended up Milwaukee.....

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  2. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Could this have been a projected line? Or? There were many such, and some were identical to those of other companies.

    Could the DMA&W have been a subsidiary of Wabash, never actually within Wabash itself? I have seen situations like this in history, where they hit some financial troubles, lost control of the stocks and ended up coming under control of another company or being sold off. I believe there was a financial "panic' about 1873. Seems as though there were several, leading up to the Panic of 1893, which caused a whole bunch of troubles for larger railroads such as the NP.

    Is there a date showing on those maps?
     
  3. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    The date is 1880. I did find one legal document that was sorta vague, but it said wabash was the financier. At least I think thats what it said. I am still not sure. I found this out while lookin for history for a future layout.
    This whole line was eventually came under control of the Des Moines and northwestern, then in 1899, the Chicago, Milwaukee and St. Paul Railway...

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  4. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I'd bet my guess about losing control is correct.
     
  5. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    Was it normal to put the financiers name on the rail line when plotting a map? Even if they had little or no traffic on it?

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  6. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Back then they did all kinds of things. Power and influence. Wheeling and dealing. Having their name out there....
     
  7. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    Fascinating stuff. When Milwaukee took over they had lines to Boone, Spirit Lake, and Des Moines. The Boone line eventually disappeared. Traffic on the spirit Lake line dropped significantly when the coal mines went away. But they always had a good amount of traffic in Des Moines...

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  8. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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  9. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Yes. That sort of scenario happened so many times, a historian compiling a list could spend much of their career doing so. Sometimes the new company which leased back, was initially truly an independent effort. A lot of times it was a shell company, where that was their whole plan from day of concept.

    Wabash got to Des Moines, so that did what they needed for the long run. Anything beyond there, which brought in some money, was possibly as they say 'icing on the cake.'
     
  10. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    An interesting tidbit I found was that the route from Adel to Fonda had already been graded for rail traffic prior to 1873. Perhaps Wabash had done that and gave up some rights to others to finish the route when money got tight? That actually starts to make a lot of sense..

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  11. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Many scenarios were possible. Someone would get started, then run out of money/backing and fail. There would sit a partially started line. Somebody else would come along, pick up the charter or remains, and move ahead. Sometimes, they too would fail.

    Another was a scheme. Someone would spot an opportunity, or so they believed. They'd incorporate, then try selling to a source they believed had deep pockets. That probably failed more often than suceeding.

    Yet another angle on scamming up a profit, was to take it a step or two further. Perceiving (or misperceiving) a possible interest by another concern, they'd start grading, or even lay a few sticks of rail, to block another party from coming in, and then try selling to the blocked group.... A smart interested party could often just wait them out for failing, then come in and get it for little or nothing.

    All kinds of things could and did happen.
     
  12. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    I have two questions here about this now. If Wabash had actually completed this line. Where would it have gone too, and what would have been its fate?
    And second, did all the railroads that used the built up grading, did they have to pay for it all upfront, or did they have to pay to use it? Even Milwaukee at the end...

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  13. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I can't help with your first question. :(

    There were the "land grant" railroads, which the ownership came via government. However, there is a misconception about this method. Most railroads were not built through land grants. There were charters, but I am not quite clear on how those functioned. A successor of course would have taken ownership, but exactly how that title to the land worked, I am not sure. If they picked up something from a defunct or existing operation, someone owned the title or deed.

    The MILW got their western lands with money. They bought or leased properties. One reason it cost a lot to build that route, although not as much as some self-anointed "historians" have overblown the numbers.
     
  14. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    It would be interesting to see if they bought the rights outright. Or if they had to pay wabash a stipend. I am sure there may be info out there.
    As for my first question. I would think it would have been sold off or used by Norfolk until it became a a liability. However, there are at least five large grain elevators on that branch. And a giant one in Jefferson. Who knows?

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  15. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Here is what I can find, company name timeline:

    Des Moines, Adel & Western Railroad Company incorporated June 25, 1875;

    Name changed to Des Moines North Western Railway Company on October 7, 1880;

    Deeded to Des Moines and Northwestern Railway company on May 19, 1888;
    (Weird side note: This was the exact date the very first post-construction official train passed through my home town in Washington State!)

    Des Moines and Northwestern Railway Company merged with Des Moines, Northern & Western Railway Company,
    December 28, 1891;

    Deeded to Des Moines, Northern and Western Railroad Company on February 23 or 25, 1895. Exact date confused;

    Des Moines, Northern and Western Railroad Company sold to Chicago, Milwaukee and St. Paul Railway Company,
    on May 1, 1899. (There is a later deed revision date. This was the sale date.)

    I can find no reference in there at all to the Wabash Railroad. My guess is if they were involved, the company was indeed a subsidiary, independently operated.
     
  16. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    Well, I will get some pictures of that Platt map and put them on here. And those dates correlate with what I have found. What is.really sad is that in the seventies there was already a slow speed order on this line. There were plenty of revenue spots on the line. All the grain, a couple brick yards, and some manufacturing. Perhaps wabash sold it all after the 1873 crash.

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  17. 57A26

    57A26 TrainBoard Member

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    According to information in "Iowa Railroads, the essays of Frank P. Donovan Jr." which is a reprint of articles he did for the Iowa State Historical Society, the Wabash leased the narrow gauge company in 1881. They extended it into Des Moines and had plans to extend it towards Storm Lake. During this time Jay Gould controlled the Wabash and wanted to extend the Wabash's reach into Iowa. In 1884 the Wabash went into receivership and that led to them losing control, those companies eventually becoming leased then purchased by the Milwaukee Road.
     
  18. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    Thats interesting. It was leased them to the Des Moines &Adel RR, which became the Des Moines & Northwestern. But the history book from 1884 for this area says the depots are Wabash.

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  19. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    It could just be a "historian" not looking deeply enough, not seeing them as being built by predecessors to the MILW influence, or that some were built by the MILW afterward.
     
  20. gcav17

    gcav17 TrainBoard Member

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    That book was written by a state historian. And he probably only looked at land deeds.
    But Ken, I got something you may be interested in on the Milwaukee history thread.

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