I watched the vid last night and I can see that it can work . However I have a couple of reservations . It stops way to abruptly at the top , I see derailed trains . I wonder if some foam padding somewhere will help ? The problem isn't as bad going down ...... Maybe an electric slow speed motor with limit switches would be better ? When I envisioned a train elevator I was thinking of something like a TV lift , although I didn't price them . Interested to see how this comes out ! Mike
Yes, thanks for the input. I tried that just after posting the video yesterday and it works well going both ways. Going up I have it under the lift bucket so that the bucket hits it at the end of its journey going down (elevator going up). When the elevator is going down the foam is under the lift part that goes up and down. I did a quick test and it worked well but think I can refine it even more. The elevator section with the track surface on it only exerts about 16-18 lbs.. of pressure going either way since the stationary weight in the lift bucket cancels out the rest of the weight of the part that goes up and down. I'm going to start with probably 4 pads going either way to stop the elevator and limit the travel in each direction. So each pad is only dealing with 4- lbs. static and some more in kinetic energy when the elevator contacts the stops. Still not real high forces. I'll probably try padding them some to slow the hit down and they will be easily adjustable to adjust where the elevator is in relation to the layout's surface height. I could of gone with electric motors and limit switches and such but wanted to try this out first. It is pretty simple in execution and the only wiring required at this point is simple, similar to wiring a light that can be turned on/off from two locations. I might go eventually with an Arduino where I could manage how long the pumps ran after the elevator hit the pads and it could also control throwing the appropriate turnouts on the track surface and those for the routes approaching the elevator and stop and start trains as needed. So this could all be automated but for now wanted to show that it could also be easy to setup for a more manual operated approach. Sumner
I also wonder about the single robe to hang it on. Doesn't it wobble a bit? Could throw cars off the track.
Got the track elevator moved into the layout proper today and happy about the results. I think it might work. Won't say for sure until I see a train load on it and exit on/off both levels. I'll try and get photos up of the move into the layout tomorrow but meanwhile here is a video of where it is at now... This is the first test of the elevator in the layout. There will be tweaks and changes but overall I'm very happy with the results and see this probably actually working. Haven't know that until this point. I'm adding a higher capacity pump for the lift bucket and putting the two pumps I have now in the stationary bucket. They should maybe cut rise and descent times in half. I built this to replace having a helix and hoped that it would be quite a bit faster than a train climbing a helix and use a lot less track. I'll be changing to buckets with screw-on lids and move the weights to the outside and below the lift bucket and it will be attached to the rope with a cradle holding the bucket from below. Won't lift by the handle once that is done. Also the plumbing will be cleaned up. Sumner
Perhaps you could use the hydraulic lift rams used on vehicle lift doors and windows to counter balance the load of the elevator. This may give it a more stable movement and then there would be less need for the brick counter weights. With the elevator down the rams would be compressed by it's weight and take less water to lift. Early morning thinking before the coffee takes over.
Elevator Section Part 6: Time to move the track elevator into the layout. This took a day (my days are now 4-6 hours max). . . To clarify the picture above a little. I needed to know how long to make the legs under the elevator housing (houses the part of the elevator that rises and descends). I put the track surface on top of the stops that had been made that positioned the top of the track surface at the same height as the foam board on the lower level of the layout (the elevator track surface doesn't get foam board). I moved the complete elevator (housing and elevator section) under the track surface that was positioned above it on the layout. I measured from the elevator top to the bottom of the 1 X 2 bracing under the track surface plywood. The measurement was 16 ¾ inches. I subtracted ½ inch and came up with a total length of a leg of 16 ¼ inch. I subtracted the ½ inch to make sure the track surface and the attached elevator would be resting on the stops and not the bottom of the elevator housing. You can find the details on how I first made these legs ( HERE ). . Cutting the legs to length, making the one leg like the other three and attaching them to the bottom of the elevator housing went by quickly and in an hour or so I was ready to slide the elevator under the layout. After the track surface is attached to the elevator section it will pull the elevator section up ½ inch and the weight of the track surface and the elevator section will be resting on the stops and not the bottom of the elevator housing. This will allow the final position of the track surface in respect to the layout surface to be done with different thickness stops if needed. . . To be continued ….......... A link to this build on my site is ( HERE ). Sumner
Sumner, Maybe I'm misunderstanding the pictures, but are you planning on having track mounted directly on the plywood top of the elevator, as opposed to on a sheet of foam (similar to the stationary part of the layout?) If the former, why the difference; or am I missing something? (likely the latter) Trains would sound notably different (and louder) rolling on the elevator plywood vs the mainline foam.
Andy the track will be on cork on the plywood and cork on the foam board. Cork roadbed on most of the elevator but cord sheet going on/off the elevator and the approach tracks. I'm planning on using the... .... rerailers I made ( HERE ) with the screw slots on the elevator and on the approach tracks. If I need to adjust them I can move the screws if needed or loosen them and adjust the rerailer. The screws will hold in the plywood but not in the foam board. I'm using cork since I like gluing it down like on my test track and then gluing the track to it except the rerailers and a little track that attaches to the rerailers. The train won't run far on the elevator, 1 lap around it at slow speed so not concerned about any additional noise. Thanks for the input, Sumner
Richard thanks for the input and giving this some thought. The rams might work but in my case might be hard to use below the elevator and it would be hard to figure out which one had the right amount of force I believe. I used the bricks as they were handy at the moment but one could use gravel, sand, lead, steel or lots of other things for weight in the lift bucket. You want to counterbalance most of the weight but not all. I want the elevator to still weigh enough after the counterbalance effect that it presses down on the stops when in the down position hard enough to be stable. So far I've found a 16 to 20 pound final weight to be probably enough. At the moment the elevator part that moves with the track surface on it weighs about 42-43 lbs. To get the 16 to 20 pound final weight I need the lift bucket with the weights and some water in it to weigh about 20 lbs.. Using the bricks and a piece of scrap steel it has been easy to do that. Picking the right hatch lift and installing it would probably work but harder to do. Now that I feel good enough about the possibility of this working I'm going to make a fixture to hold the lift bucket where I don't have to lift using the handle on the bucket. I'll also move the weight outside and below the bucket. I'll also change the buckets to some that I have that have screw-on lids, cutting down on evaporation and also clean up the plumbing hose so it is neater and more compact. Sumner
OK! After finally waking up I gave it more thought and realized the same as you point out. Besides I've had a few of those fail and it gave me a head ache. Still enjoying your handiwork.
Track Plan and Laying Out Track Centerlines: After getting all the 1” foam board laid down on the lower level I wanted to mark the track centerlines for most of the layout. First for the lower level and then once I knew where most of it was going to be I could move onto marking the upper level out so that I could cut it free and move it up 10 to 11 inches. I've done all my track design using an older free version of SketchUp (CAD program that I think you can still download a free version of). I'm not using any sectional track (all ME flex track) or commercial turnouts at this point so I'm fairly free to design what I want and change things as I go. The drawing above is recent but only about 90% of it shows final track position. As I go from it to the layout I often see that I want something different and I'm free to change the plans. Not shown but a nice feature of using the CAD program is that I can locate any place on the track plan with a horizontal and vertical distance off any corner. As I layout the centerlines I go into the house and use the program to tell me where the end of a track is in relation to one or two of the edges in just a minute and go back out and take that measurement to find the position on the actual layout and use it if I want to, very handy feature. If one is using sectional track and doesn't have quite that much freedom then one of the track planning programs that can use the track they are using is probably a better way to go but if you use flex track and build your own turnouts a CAD program can be much more flexible. I use the 3D printed compass (next picture) to throw most of the track radius's as I laid out the track centerlines. At times though you need to swing an arc/radius from a point off the layout. To do so I've clamped a piece of wood to the side of the layout extending out far enough to use it for the compass pivot point. Still I realized that having some patterns of different radius would be handy so took a scrap piece of particle board I had and swung different radius's. I'm using 18” and 16.75” radius for my main line whenever possible so started with those and then went up and down in 1.25” increments as that is the distance I'll use for track centerlines. I might of gone more if I was using newer equipment but my time frame is pre-1975. UP had some long locos in that time period but felt those radius numbers for the main line would be a good compromise between looks and functionality. Above we see the new patterns and the 3D printed compass that is quick and easy to use in most situations. You can buy similar templates but these only took about 30 minutes to make and were basically free. I ended up using these a lot while laying out the track centerlines. I had my plans but was easily open to making changes like above where I wanted to run a service road down between the main yard tracks and the area that has the turntable/roundhouse and other engine facilities. I used one distance designing with the computer and another in actuality. I made a number of other changes around the half dozen industries that will be next to the main yard and some other places like around the engine house. I use a couple 3 foot steel rulers, couple carpenter squares, angle finders, turnouts (mostly #6's) I've built, radius templates, compass, paper turnout templates and anything else that helps when laying out the track centerlines. I also mocked up a section of a cliff face and a tunnel portal to get a feel for what my limits were on where my lower level track would be in relation to the upper level track is that will be about 10 ½ inches above it. When I laid out the track that runs around the back of the roundhouse (partially in a tunnel) I didn't like how it was coming out almost right under a turnout on the upper level. Laying it out with the CAD program I thought it would work. Once I had things in place I didn't like it so moved the track over to where the dashed line is relocating where it comes out of the hill side (further from the turnout above it). The dashed like is an approximation above and not exactly how it ended up. The elevated area in the center of the layout will have a backdrop/divider going down the center of it so that the yard scene on the right side above can have a different landscape (red-rock canyon country) vs. more high plains/mountains on the other side of the layout. As the image say, I am enjoying doing this. Will it ever be done? No, but will be a good journey! I still need to figure out exactly what I'd like to do on the left side of the lay in addition to the coal mine complex. I got far enough though to know where I wanted the upper level tracks on that side. I still need to layout the upper level at the end of the layout above the hidden staging tracks. At this point it will be high country at the edge of the forest and I plan on having a saw mill there. Not one with a large log pond but more like what I've seen in dryer mountain states where the logs are trucked in. To be continued ….......... Link to the index page for this build ( HERE ). Sumner
Side Supports: I was going to put in side supports where the layout extends out past the main framework a long time ago but the small 1 X 2's that are attached to the lower level plywood really stiffen the overhang up quite a bit. So I put it off but wanted to get it done before I started gluing the foam board down so did some on the one side and will finish by going around the whole layout. I'd envisioned something more elaborate than what I actually came up with but after putting one together and trying it out and seeing how well it worked went with the pretty simple design shown above. All the supports for the lower level (unless I forgot some) are all screwed into the lower level from below vs. the more traditional method of building the framework and then screwing the track surface into it. One drawback to that is you end up with something you want to put under the layout, such as a switch machine, and there ends up with a frame member in the way. I used risers (see beginning of this build) that raise the lower level 3 inches above all the major framework. Then I used risers like above and ( HERE ) to support the layout's lower level. Since there are no screws into any of these from above if one is in the way I just unscrew it and move it a few inches to a new location. The side supports are simple and fast to make. The reason these work so well and are so strong is the piece of plywood on the one end. Think of the side support as a see-saw with the main frameworks side members being the pivot point. The edge of the lay is trying to push the left end of the side support down. The plywood on the other end is very strong in tension and the side member is trying to pull it up but it is firmly attached to one of the frameworks main cross members. I swear you could sit on the edge of the layout and it wouldn't go anywhere. The side supports will also make it easy to run a fascia along the side as it will be attached to the 1 X 2 on the top of the plywood and these side supports. The layout is very open underneath and easy to get to about any place you would need to get to. I can lay on the creeper I made ( HERE ) or have found out I can sit on the lower left end as shown above and my head clears the bottom of the plywood surface above. It rolls easily to any location. To be continued ….......... If you came into the build here you can find the main index for the build ( HERE ). Sumner
Finished up the side supports minus the track elevator area. I've also come along quite a ways on the elevator and I'm happy with how it is operating. I'll try and get more up on where it is at in a day or so. . . . To be continued ….......... If you came into the build here you can find the main index for the build ( HERE ). Sumner
Took a break from layout construction and worked some on a problem I've been laying awake thinking about when I wake up a 3 am. The main yard and engine facility part of the layout will have over 50 turnouts if I get them all installed (I've built over 40 at this point that I can use). The area is about 30” wide and about 12 feet long from the beginning of the yard on the east end to the roundhouse on the west end. I thought a central control panel would be really crowded with the track diagram and trying to get the switches needed to control all of the turnouts so decided against that approach. I really like my 'Gravity Switch Machines' shown above and described ( HERE ). They are super simple, simple to install, very reliable, no wiring to run except to the frog and cost about nothing if you have a 3D printer but didn't want 50+ activating lines under the layout in this area along with the fact that they take up too much fascia space to fit the area. I'll still use them a number of other places on the layout but not here. Instead I'm going to probably use servo control and my servo mounts, switch boxes and servo controllers all shown and explained ( HERE ). It works well and is also easy to install and costs less than $10 total per turnout. After seeing the picture above and ones similar I thought why not use the basic principal of its approach to handling the turnouts in a yard. Have a diagram of the yard above and the turnout controls separate from the diagram. Above the controls are below the diagram. In my case I'll probably run them off to either side of it. Above the basic concept is shown. The track diagram is about 8” X 21” in size and represents the yard and engine facility area. At each turnout there is a round circle with a number in it. Running off to either side of the diagram (above it is shown below) will be a row of switch boxes with the servo controller for each located below and in front of the switch box. At some point I'll put up how easy it is to design and print out one of these track diagrams if there is any interest. For the purpose of checking this out I grabbed some switch boxes I had on hand and three servo controllers. The tops of the switch boxes I'll use will have a representation of the turnout it controls with the appropriate routes shown on it similar to what is shown above. More on those options ( HERE ) but I'll be making up more that look like what the route looks like on the track diagram. In addition once the servo controller has been used to set how far the servo throws the points (you can easily adjust the pressure of the points on the stock rails) a cover will be placed over them that has the number of the turnout that the switch controls. The track diagram will be in the middle of the area with the turnout controls running off to both sides. Since the length of the area is about 12 feet the controls will be very close to the turnout they control. In addition the track diagram will have indicator LED lighting to show the current position that the turnout is in. I tried out some 0404 white LED's that I use for decoder installs and liked the effect and ordered green and red ones. The green ones will be used on the through route and the red on the divergent route. These are really small LED's and I'll probably use a smaller bit for the hole than what is show. I had some 1/4” plywood paneling left over from a camper I built and will use it for the control panel backing. The paper track diagram will lay on it with cleat Plexiglas over it. If I need to make changes I can drill new holes and use a new paper track diagram. Above is my test run of seeing what the LED's look like mounted in the plywood. You can vary the intensity with the resistor value you use. I thought I'd have to punch holes in the paper for the LED light to shine through but even with the bright lighting in the shop I could easily see the LED through the paper track plan. I'll see how the green and red show up before making a final decision. There will be two sets of lights. On set on the switch boxes and the second set on the track diagram. A quick look at the track diagram should show one the route that is currently active with how the turnouts are currently thrown. To be continued, but first I have to get back to creating the layout's upper level and it will be quite awhile before I'll need this control panel but at least getting this far might help my sleep. If you came into the build here you can find the main index for the build ( HERE ). Sumner
Backdrop Part 1: Before I moved the foam board where the upper level tracks are to be located I wanted to get the backdrop in and maybe somewhat painted so I wouldn't have to do that over lower level tracks. The images that follow should be explanatory but if not ask. . . . . . . . . . I've had a general idea what I've wanted to do on the layout but pretty much figure the next step out as I move along, hopefully not boxing myself in at some point. I was going to make the backdrop more squared off at the near end shown above but then found a nice video from Larry Puckett 'The DCC Guy' ( HERE ) on bending Masonite. Didn't realize it could be bent as sharply as he showed in the video. My bend won't be near as sever so hope it works out. To be continued…..........If you came into the build here you can find the main index for the build ( HERE ). Sumner
Elevator Section Part 7: I'm actually a lot further along on the elevator section that what it appears. The next three pages actually all happened before the side supports, the control panel and the start of the backdrop on the preceding pages. Sorry didn't get around to posting it. . . . . . . . . Elevator section to be continued….......... If you came into the build here you can find the main index for the build ( HERE ). Sumner
I wonder if using two lift ropes attached toward the ends wouldn't be better. Incase the load varies in location. They could be adjusted to level the platform. I'll think I'll just wait and see. OK? At this time this is one of the most interesting projects going.
