Train show finds and a lesson learned

You make a valid point. Yesterday, by definition, means the day before today. Of course in reality I'm most likely saying the stuff made before 1995 but then someone is going to argue that a certain locomotive made in 1970 was the best ever. That will only spark a discussion that leads down a road I'm not certain I would want to take at this time. It can also start a lot of name dropping as in Kato made the best but you should of seen an early Atlas. I mean this discussion can take so many twists and turns becoming down right nasty. So, I hope you won't mind if I refrain from any specifics in hopes I don't slander any of the many model railroad providers out there.

Just be cautious and seek the counsel of the grey beards in your group. Many can tell you what equipment to leave alone and what's ok to buy. Trust them... See my profile for example of grey beard.

Let's see I did refer to a Chinese Proverb...unuhh...there it is, "Let buyer beware".

Do look at the latest stuff produced and if your acquisition's officer gives you the high ball to buy it...:wideeyes:...go for it. .

 

I've never seen this. And being most private individuals are selling used excess stock, I can't see how the state can tax them, being the items sales tax has already been collected.

For shows I've seen with the lack of private individuals, its the cost of the tables, when a show is charging $30+ per, and some just don't think they will make that much after the cost of the table or tables.

 

I think jmauer and others are confusing train shows with swap meets. Having private sellers at train shows has never (in the past 15 or so years I've been going) normal, but it is very normal at swap meets. Personally, I've never gotten into a situation like described, partly due to diligence on my part and partly due to luck.

 

This may not have been the dealers fault. There were a few batches of Atlas GP7s and 9s that came with "DCC Ready" on the box that were never meant to. For example, my maroon MEC GP7s came that way as did the Canadian road names from several years ago that were a special run.

 

Here in New York, you generally don't get a table until you prove to the show hosts that you have a sales tax certificate. I have not personally witnessed, but I have heard of, entire shows being shut down because dealers could not produce sales tax certificates, in both New York and New Jersey. This isn't limited to trains. So the show hosts are particularly careful about this around here.

I think it's fair to say that some states (and jurisdictions) are more, eh, diligent, about this than others. Some states expect holders of garage sales to collect sales tax.

In theory, whenever someone sells anything to anyone, unless the buying party is exempt from sales tax for some reason, and can prove it, there's sales tax to be collected. It doesn't matter how many times the item has been sold.

All that having been said, table cost is absolutely a factor. It's generally $30 and up (and up) out here. One local show decided to raise a table price to $80 for a two day show, and so many previous participants decided not to sign up that the entire show was cancelled.

 

What people here have stated about New York and New Jersey does not surprise me. Those two states are obsessed with taxes. I, too, have heard of entire shows' being shut down, but that usually has been due to the presence of multiple violators. I have witnessed, in Jersey, merchants' having their inventory seized by State Revenooers. That has been the usual scenario: they seize the merchandise of the two or three violators that they find. In addition, you will see three or four more vendors' rapidly tossing their inventory into tubs and hoping that their "feets don't fail [them] now" as they do their best imitation of Snagglepuss.

OWE'Maladyland is just as obsessed, but at least they will both give you a one-time permit and let you pay after the fact. I am guessing that they get a list from the show sponsors of who was there, check it against their records and mail you a letter, if you ain't in their records. The letter informs you that you are granted the temporary permit. There is a paper to fill out that asks how much you sold and tells you what percentage to mail to them and where to mail it. I would guess that this is what they do if you only sell at an occasional show. If you make a habit of selling, even if it is simply used and/or excess accumulated stuff, they would want you to apply for a regular licence. This seems reasonable and is surprising, for Maryland. They should be happy, as long as they get their money, at some point. When it comes to taxes, however, the Authorities tend to become very quickly unreasonable.

As for the credit card incident, I do not know what the policies were, at the time, of credit card issuers. If any merchant tried that to-day, upon protest of the holder, the best that would happen to the merchant would be a charge-back for the disputed amount (assuming that the consumer retains the originally issued receipt). At worst, the card issuer could take steps to have the merchant's processor cancel the contract.

I always visit the test track when I purchase a locomotive. Some vendors will let you do it before you hand over your money, but there are those that will not. I do not blame them, I simply ask if it they will make it good if the locomotive refuses to run. If they say 'no', I do not do business with them.

 

When I say train shows I do mean swap meets.It is common here to have some run trains together with the swap meet. The last time I sold at a swap meet here in Minnesota they pasted out tax forms to fill out. If it just your stuff and not a business there is no need for sales tax. this was maybe 3 or 4 years ago. I think is is more fun looking & buying at a swap meet than on ebay , plus I normally go rail fanning after the show/meet. I still go to 1 or 2 shows a year,its fun looking and I normally find a least one thing to buy that I do not really need..

 

No I'm not since there are NO train swap meets in northern Calif any more. There was a time when 25% of a big train show would be locals selling off excess trains, now if there is 1-2 private individuals selling ANY scale, it's a big deal (and the best deals). Other than that, it's pros selling what is all too often junk to the public who is interested in getting into modeling trains...aka lambs to the slaughter.

 

I work a construction job away from home, and my entertainment (and to make up for living out of a camper trailer) is train shows/swap meets. Been on the east coast for nearly 5 years. I will buy collections of old to new stuff, basically anything N scale, and weed out the keepers for my home layout. Rest goes to the show. I've been told multiple times that my prices are very reasonable by customers. My policy is to treat them the way I want to be treated. I always request power at my tables because I carry a short test track. Show organizers don't always oblige in the confusion, but it happens for me 90% of the time. Since a lot of my stuff is "vintage", I insist it go on the test track. If I don't have my track, I let the customer take it to the in house test track and if satisfied, come back and pay me. Haven't lost one yet. This policy may change if I ever do. I have never been too keen on a disgruntled customer looking me up at the next show with a bad runner. I price according to what I would pay in relation to how much I have in the item. If it runs badly, I will give an optional as-is discount. Depending on table cost, some shows more discount than others. Some shows, I have to sell a whole bunch of N scale before I break even on table cost, gas, etc. Others, more reasonable. Then, sales taxes. I like the Maryland setup. No hassel, they send me a letter, I send check, done. Pennsylvania, different story. I got notified at the first N Scale Weekend of my error of not having a tax number. So, I now do, just for the sake of doing that one show a year. I have to file semi-annually, tax due or not. If my job takes me out of range of doing the Bedford Show, I will cancel my status with PA. I despise having to file when nothing is due because it is complicated to do so. One thing I don't do is add on tax to the item cost. I absorb it. In interest of keeping this post short, I will stop now. Could go on with stories about dealers I have met. Overall customer rating has been very good except for the very rare "mooch" as someone put it previously.

Bob

 

At the last show where I was an individual seller the Georgia sales tax lady came by and signed me up and gave me a form to send in with my total sales and
the amount of tax collected. I didn't sell anything.
Al

 

You have to look at a specific state where a given show is held.

That sales tax was previously collected on the initial sale of items at a show, whether model trains or whatever, is irrelevant. Generally speaking, sales tax laws generally state that all items are taxable, unless specifically exempted. "When" has no bearing for the inital collection.

State tax agents are known to go undercover at train shows to check whether vendors (a) are displaying valid tax certificates, and (b) are collecting the tax. Those not in compliance can have all their inventory seized and NOT released until the violator pays sales tax on ALL of the items that were seized. Granted, this is a broad brush, but this is something about which I've heard that COULD happen in New Jersey; other states may differ. At the same time, I cannot say this is definitive, as (a) I've never sold at train shows, and (b) I do not know of people to whom this has happened.

Dieter Zakas