For all of you current,wannabee or student railroaders I would like to offer you an observation I made the other night while driving home from a meeting. I was driving south on Narragansett Ave. in Chicago crossing the BRC tracks at approx 58th st. This is the connector from the east main to the west end of Clearing yard and the Bedford Park ramp and it runs E/W at this point. A couple of hundred feet past the crossing at grade is a signal and it was red over red. Just past the signal was the rear end of a stack train. I could tell it was a stack train from the ambient light of the city street lights. My point is that an engineer MUST ALWAYS have complete control of his train in order to comply with signal indication. The signal previous to the one I just described would be displaying a yellow aspect or APPROACH. That yellow aspect would be on a signal less than a mile from the STOP signal and not visible from the location of the yellow signal as it would be where the main is running N/S. The APPROACH signal would indicate that you must PROCEED,PREPARED TO STOP AT THE NEXT SIGNAL(copied verbatim from BRC rules). While top speed on the BRC mains is 25 mph it is still necessary to maintain control of your train so that you stop your train before or at the stop signal. You never know where you might find the rear(or head)end of another train. Just like restricted speed, be able to stop your train within half the range of your vision. That is to say if you can only see a foot in front of you, you have to be able to stop your train in 6 inches!!!!! Never get complacent running your train, the "old head" engineers are the ones who get caught most by the "short block"! CT
Charlie- Just curious- Where would you have stopped your train? Short of the crossing? In order to not block the street? Boxcab E50
It was in the mid 70's and I had just hired out with the Milwaukee Railroad at Bensenville Yard. It was during the winter and the temp was below zero. One of the oldest trainmen at Bville worked the N&W transfer job on midnights. This cold night the crew highballed outa the yard. This crew was notorious for pushing the speed limit. Where the crew met the N&W crew and exchanged trains was on slight down grade. When they arrived there because of the cold the brakes didn't stop their train and they headoned the N&W crew. No one was hurt because everybody bailed out. Remember this was before FRED so there were 4 men on each train. During my first few years I learned alot from other's stupidity. Rob
Some times, familiarity can be the problem. People take things for granted, to be a certain way. But when the situation is suddenly different... mg: oops! :sad: Boxcab E50
This was a big oops. It derailed and caused lots of damage to 4 locomotives and several cars. They were lucky no one got hurt! While I worked at Bville yard I saw quite a bit of things like this. As a matter of fact the railroad brought in a terminal manager from St. Paul to stop all the things at Bville that were such a waste of money to the Road. It was pretty sad to watch! Rob
Give yuz another one to "run thru the grinder" The METRA Rock Island District commuter train that derailed after taking a switch too fast. I say it was inattention and lapse of memory on the part of the hogger. BUT... I dont rule out a catastophic electro-mechanical failure also. AND The parsimony of the damn carriers to STILL have 10mph crossovers on high-speed passenger mainlines. A/ Inattention(was he talking on his cell phone?) B/He just fergot about the 10mph switch(did it meself with a loco consist-got a helluva ride!) It is not unusual to see train crew members yelling at their Motos! It is against the rules,but so is smoking in the cab. However it is done and done quite often. The head-on at the Aurora Transportation Center some 5+ years ago is believe to have been due to inattention(hogger on cell phone)and flagrant violation of signal indication. It is not inconceivable that a catastrophic electro-mechanical problem occured, in spite of what the carriers say and in spite of testing. We had a derailment at East yard Eola(IL) some years back. The TM tried to pin it on the switch foreman,a senior employee,that the foreman deliberately threw the switch as the car was going thru it. The switch was a solar battery powered switch(which are no longer in use). The foreman argued the the switch "flopped" itself. The TM was ready to fire the guy on the spot and order him off the property when the stupid switch "flopped" on its own volition. CASE CLOSED In the ATC head-on incident, a friend of mine was party of the first part to a signal/switch anomaly a day or two before the head on, WHICH HE REPORTED TO PROPER AUTHORITIES(caps for emphasis). The crew of the violating train claims that they "highballed" the ATC with proper "Clear" signal(green aspect). Just so's ya know, there would be no such term as "false clear" if such an anomaly was impossible. METRA has about 1/2 of all the money in the world and they are too gahdammed cheap to eliminate low speed switches in high speed territory. There is NO excuse for 19th century railroad operating practices on 21st century commuter railroads. Nuff said! Figger it out yourselves or wait for the NTSB to make their ruling CT
This is a scenario that always bothers me. They'll assign blame to the train crew, dispatcher, or other person(s) involved. ("Human error.") But their signals, physical, plant, etc, is almost never able to malfunction. Even though it's entirely built of materials made by, and maintained by, fallible humans. ("Human error.") Hmmmmmmm. :sad: Boxcab E50
Signals and physical plant do malfunction, much as the carriers would have you believe they can't. It's very rare but I know of one case where a false clear was displayed and only the thinking of the man in the seat prevented a head-on. You trust the signals with your life every day but still need to stay in the game and keep that 'situational awareness' just in case. As to that approach to a stop scenario...That situation is the textbook case of being really qualified on your territory. If you're not 100% sure of where you are and what's coming about 5 miles ahead, you'd better be at a speed where you're ready for anything. The list of bad things that can happen when you get suprised is pretty long and most involve dismissal, derailment, disability or at least a change of underwear. IMO anyone who deliberately hotrods an Approach of any kind is out of their mind. I know guys who like to screech 100 cars to a stop with all the brakes hanging out and the power on right to the bitter end. Impressive for brake smoke and noise but last time I checked, the company doesn't pay anything extra for that performance. They will however be happy to fire your dumb @$#% if you blow by the board a couple of feet. You give up a lot of your options when you run that way so if it doesn't work out quite the way you thought, you've got nothing left. It just ain't worth the risk anymore, if it ever was. I kind of figured out early on what scared was about when I came in a shade too hot on a foggy night and had to use everything short of emergency to get stopped for a red. Less than one car length past the signal was the marker of another guy stopped ahead. The old head engineer I was training with just looked over and asked if I learned anything (he was a cool headed Erie man. He knew I'd get stopped, even if I didn't know it). The answer was yes and the lesson has never been forgotten. Know the road, the rules, the equipment, the conditions and most of all, know your own limits.
I should have added to my previous post re: the Aurora Transportation Center head-on, that the signal/switch anomaly I referred to was in the same signal plant that was governing the movement of the violating train departing from the ATC. I know for a fact that the FRA came out to investigate that claim because I was on duty when the FRA examiner came out and asked if I was______________(my friend). I answered in the negative but told him where he could find my friend. CT
Rule 6.27 Movement at restricted speed. When required to move at restricted speed, movement must be made at a speed that allows stopping within half the range of vision short of: Train, Engine, Railroad car, Men or equipment fouling the track, Stop signal or Derail or switch improperly lined. When a train or engine is required to move at restricted speed, the crew must keep a lookout for broken rail and do not exceed 20 mph. Comply with these requirements until the leading wheels reach a point where movement at restricted speed is no longer required. Approach indication. Freight trains exceeding 30 mph must reduce train speed to 30 mph prepared to stop at next signal. Please don't think i'm this smart. I had to go out to my truck and get my gcor to remember how the rule read. That's bad aint it!! LOL!
Nuther story to tell yuz... Senior engineer, EB pool stack train, in State of Wisconsin,Minnesota Sub. ABS/TWC territory, knows he is following another intermodal train and is running on approach alla way! Has several "Form Bs" due to track gangs working. He is observing Form B rule and protocol, there is a signal mast(intermediate)display a yellow aspect,approach indication. No big deal to this engineer cuz he is expecting it since he knows he is following another train. HOWEVER..... What he forgets is that this yellow signal is protecting a VERY SHORT block, much less than 1/2 mile in length. As he is passing track gang at track speed(he was told to pass track gang at authorized track speed) he notices track gang waving at him somewhat wildly. They were telling him to slow down because they knew that he would never be able to stop at the next board if it was red. He realized it too late(the track gang reached him on the radio also!),dumped the air but got by the board big time! Fortunately no harm done except to his record. He got some extended vacation time, and the signal is now known as "_________'s signal" As I say, you never know what to expect around the next curve!! CT
Our last teacher we had the last week of class was a trainmaster. He told us he'd reguarly call up dispatch and have the train talked by a red board. Well the track is also a sweeping curve with trees on both sides. He'd put a red flag just around the corner to make sure the crew was indeed doing Restricted speed.
