Jim, You are not a “dope”! You proved you’re not by “asking the question”! One of my first posts was a disaster when I put “Attacking” in the title when I meant it to be “Attracting”. Bob
The future of DBTC? Some pictures of a Bluetooth 4.0 on a breakout board ($30 for 3, delivered!). Oh, but this isn’t just Bluetooth it is also: •32 bit processor •128 bit AES HW encryption •256kB flash & 16kB RAM •Programmable Peripheral Interconnect •Digital interfaces: SPI, I2C, UART •10 bit ADC This highly integrated chip exists because of the existing and anticipated growth in high-volume Bluetooth applications. Bob
I find the idea of blue tooth control intriguing, not with the idea of replacing existing DCC, but rather, to be used alongside it. I am interested in adapting 1 or 2 locos in both HO and O 3-Rail to run on my club's modular layouts. Our HO layout is run using DCC and at times, DC. our O 3-Rail layout runs MTH DCS, Lionel TMCC, and sometimes conventional AC power, depending on the loco or the operator. My only O 3-Rail steam loco is a Lionel LionChief Plus Mikado, which is radio controlled, but can take it's power from the rails whether we are running AC or DC, conventional or digital. I have a couple of 3-rail diesels that use dual motor drives that I would like to be able to run with the same flexibility, but the conversion would need to be as simple as possible, and hopefully would not disable the loco's ability to run using a conventional AC power pack (perhaps by throwing an onboard switch like the LC+). Even though it's not quite scale size, I really love my LC+ Mike and the fact that I can plop it down on the layout and go, no matter what control system the layout is running at the time. Although I already own several decoder equipped HO locos, as well as several that are still DC, I would like to be able to do the same thing on our HO layout, especially if it can be done as simply as plugging a Blue Tooth board into an existing DCC-ready socket with no further modifications to the loco. I think one of the greatest contributions the development of DCC has made to the hobby is the plug-in DCC-ready socket in locomotives, and the concept of plug-and-play decoder installation, which can just as easily apply to BlueTooth or even Radio Control. Bill in FtL
Bill, It is great to here form someone that is not stuck in DCC and understands what DBTC can do! I have a medium size all DCC layout and plan on using my DBTC locomotives on it. The DBTC that I am working on probably want be available in HO plug-in form for users for about a year. It differs for other DBTC boards in that it is open-source (no proprietary interfaces or “patent pending”), and also that it will have the capability to do precision motor-speed and distance-traveled control along with executing a set of stored commands. If you are in a hurry, there is Bachmann/BlueRail DBTC coming. But I do not recommend going with a “patent pending” approach. There is also another DCC manufacturer that is experimenting with DBTC and my put something out this year. Bob
Hi Bob, i wouldn't go so far as to say I'm not stuck in DCC, since I have and use several different systems, Digitax, Atlas Commander, and 2 each Lenz system 90 and 100, plus an old early Rapido unit given to me by a friend. I use the Digitrax system with my HO modular group, and the Lenz with my On30 and N scale T-Trak modules. The Atlas is mostly a backup for the Lenz, and the Arnold is sort of a museum piece relic. I probably have over 50 decoder equipped locos in HO and N scale, too, so I'm not ready to abandon DCC by any means. The thing I find most attractive about the Blue Tooth (or radio, for that matter) control concept is that it can be added to supplement an existing DCC layout with little or no pain. I would also be very interested in seeing Blue Tooth support the implementation of stay alive circuitry utilizing super caps or onboard batteries to assure uninterrupted operation, or even using the on board batteries as a sole power source. I am also attracted by the idea of using a cell phone or an iPod or iPad as a wireless controller, rather than to have the added complication of hooking up a computer in order to operate the trains. As I said in my earlier post, I'm very interested in being able to do all this as "plug & play" rather than to have to hard wire a bunch of different components together into a locomotive. I hope I'm in the right place... Bill in FtL
Bill, “Not stuck in DCC” was a poor choose of words. I was using this phase to mean a person that was in DCC but willing to try other things in the effort to improve the hobby. The first 3 BlueTrain DCC boards that I will be ordering soon will be expensive. (The boards were designed by a manufacturer, not by a hardware kluger like me!) But there should be more boards available at a reasonable price, but that will be up to the manufacturer. Because I am paying a premium for the first boards, they will only have what I need (or want) (plus BEMF) to keep the costs down. I expect the manufacturer will release information about a DDC plug-compatible version of the board after we both have viable working DBTC locomotives to demonstrate. I know that others are interested in stay-alive and batteries. (I also believe that batteries as the sole power source will takeover in the future, but not in my future.) I will support the open-source board firmware for as long as I am needed and able, and I am willing to work on whatever additional functions are popular. Unfortunately, right now (except for the board manufacturer) the open-source DBTC workers consist of just one person and I have my hands full. Eventually more people need to get involved in the work of the DBTC group. Bob
Hi Bob, I have just subscribed to this thread, is there anywhere else I should go to keep up with further developments on your project? Thanks, Bill
Yes. If you haven’t seen the first two posts in this thread, you should take a look at them also. Bob
Hassle-Free-Firmware-Updates! BlueTrain will now have an added feature! The user will be able to change the firmware in BlueTrain locomotives without touching or changing anything on the locomotive, layout, layout-power, or Bluetooth connection. And because Bluetooth provides a fast and reliable 2-way connection, the firmware will be faster and easier to change than a CV setting with a DCC system. (All the coding has been done and tested, just waiting for the first set of locomotive hardware for final testing and demonstration.) This is just one example of how advanced technology (when done correctly) can be less complex than old technology. Bob
The “Bluetooth Transceiver for Model Locos” project at “Atmel Spaces” has come to an end. The reason for this has the transfer of BlueTrain firmware from Atmega to PIC18 processors. This was done in conjunction with the development of the first set of BlueTrain locomotive boards which will use PIC18 processors. Many thanks to “Atmel” and “Atmel Spaces” for supporting this open-source development effort! Bob
The first DBTC boards are being shipped, and I will be very busy assembling and debugging the first DBTC HO FTA locomotive. I estimate that this will take about a month, so that means that it will probably take 2 months. Bob
That is up to the board manufacturer. But the firmware for the board will not be release for about a month two (until the initial debugging and first demonstration unit is completed). Bob
http://www.bluerailtrains.com/ My thought on this product is . 1. Seriously.. use your blue tooth and your cellphone to control a model train. 2. What's next? I'm still DC Ok, ANOLOG ! 3. I have more important things on my phone to deal with. This product is not in my future. Tom
Tom, Yes, no train control interface will satisfy everybody. The product you reference is NOT what this thread is about. I also say “This product is not in my future.” It is a “proprietary” interface. Bob
Harris, Thanks for the information! This looks like the second one; BlueRail Trains (Bachmann) was apparently first. More competition is better for us users. I do not believe that either of these two will ever be open-source and probably not even open-interface, so I will keep at it for now. I am also doing a good bit more that just Bluetooth-control with the unit I am working on. Bob
Some good information for hobbies that are interested in the future scalability of DBTC for use on large scale layouts. [This is a large PDF and may take a while to download] https://www.csrsupport.com/download/49799/CS-316143-DC-CSRmesh.pdf Bob
Greetings RT_coker, your thread forced me out of lurker status because I cannot tell you how excited I am at the prospect of getting near DCC control using my smart phone or iPad. I have been following bluerail for sometime but dissatisfied that they are already partnering with Bachman...and I use N scale. looking forward to hearing more about this open source project. I have subscribed to this thread.
Thanks for the encouragement! Hopefully a major DCC decoder manufacturer will see the Bluetooth light (sooner rather than latter) and produce Bluetooth-locomotive-units for N scale. N scale is beyond what my shaky hands and week eyes are capable of doing. The control that DBTC provides is why beyond what DCC could ever hope for. I have recently purchased a small-battery-powered-Bluetooth-speaker ($13) that I hope to use to provide locomotive sounds. It will be in the car that immediately trails the locomotive to provide an inexpensive and flexible sound option. Bob
