The DCC dilemma, is it in your future?

JoeW Feb 18, 2011

  1. JoeW

    JoeW TrainBoard Supporter

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    Recently I had an experience with DCC that has me contemplating it for my N scale layout. At a well known shop in the bay area of California a friend of mine was testing out HO locomotives. One of the locos that he tested was an Athearn SD 70ace with Tsunami sound. Although my interest in locomotives is much earlier (first generation EMD and Alco) I could not help being impressed with the way this model operated and sounded. Although this was not my first time to experience sound and DCC this was definitely a love or lust moment.
    In creating my title for this post I am hoping to attract those of you who have been apprehensive about stepping over the line from DC to DCC and particularly those of you with the experience of doing so. Although I have a couple of pointed questions and dilemmas, I am sure many of you have experience that would be helpful whether it be expanding the questions or responding with experience. Either way I would really enjoy reading about what you have to say on the subject.

    Dilemma 1. The idea of saying goodbye to those locomotives whose mechanisms aren't practical or worth converting over makes me sad (sentimentality).

    Dilemma 2. The time fiddling with and converting over the locos that don't have easy plug and play decoders available for them makes me apprehensive about DCC.

    Question 1. Has anyone ever gone back to DC after making the commitment of buying DCC and really giving it a try?
    Question 2. Mixing DCC equipment, how well does the respective equipment correspond with each other?
    Question 3. If I were to step over the line today I would purchase the NCE 5 amp wireless system. What advice do you have for or against this system?
     
  2. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have DC. I intend to move very slowly into DCC / sound. I am not going to retrofit existing. My layout will run both.
     
  3. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    What dilemma?

    Cab A, Analog DC, DPDT'd to layout via blocks.

    Cab B, DCC into the same DPDT's and blocks.

    You are in for the ride of your life.

    You can go to DCC with locomotives that are DCC ready. Just add in the decoder. The older units remain as is...analog DC. You can hard wire the older units to a decoder. Best thing about this combo., you don't loose a thing.

    Caution: Operate one or the other but not both at the same time.

    Check this out DCC with: DPDT, 22 Gauge Wire, Cab A, Cab B

    There's no stinking dilemma. Grin!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2011
  4. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have to agree with Rick. My layout was originally DC. I am slowly converting to DCC. Lots of my stuff would either be to hard to convert...or impossible too. I run DCC...but when I want the older stuff...I flip the 4PDT and I am on DC. Besides...most new stuff and decoders are dual mode...so the DCC stuff will run on DC too. :tb-cool:

    .
     
  5. sd90ns

    sd90ns TrainBoard Member

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    No dilemma here. I have no interest in DCC and am actively hostile to sound.
     
  6. markwr

    markwr TrainBoard Member

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    I agree with Rick, installing DCC doesn't mean you can't also run DC equipment.

    As far as your question # 2, you can use any brand decoder with any system. An NCE system will work with Digitrax, Lenz, NCE, MRC, etc decoders. You can't use different brand controllers on any system (e.g. a Digitrax controller won't work on an NCE system).
     
  7. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    The NCE 5 amp is a great choice. The radio version (wireless) works great and elimnates a lot of wiring (control buss). Also, I'll echo the other comments, despite how much of a DCC-zealot one may become, it's always a nice option to have at least one loop on the layout switchable back to DC for running legacy equipment or items that you don't feel like investing the time/money to install decoders into.
     
  8. Delamaize

    Delamaize TrainBoard Member

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    for your old non DCC diesels with the split light boards, (Like the Kato SD40) their is an option, the TCS CN and CN GP. I haveused MANY of these decoders, they are great, and fairly easy to install, only a few soldering joints needed, 5 total. The first few can be daunting, just take your time, use a good fine tipped iron, and be paitent.

    Overall, IMHO their is no locomotives that can not be converted to DCC, you just have to get creative with how you install it, and with tiny decoders like the Lenz Silver Mini, the chances of being able to decoder a locomotive is really good.

    Remember, if you have questions or need some help, take lots of pictures, and ask! their is a mess of how to articles out there, and most of us have installed literally hundreds of decoders. I have probally 40 installs under my belt myself.
     
  9. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    If you are interested in realistic operation of a model railroad, I don't see how you can do without DCC. MU operations; yard operations; helper service (rear and mid-train), etc., etc., all become either possible or much more realistic with DCC.

    Example. Train A has just rolled in to the yard. It has two GP9's on the front, and we're going to add a third for the trip over the mountains. How do you add that third loco in the consist realistically with DC only? Or you want to add mid-train helpers. Not with DC.

    Do you really want to be flipping block switches back and forth as you follow your train around the layout? Particularly if it's a local doing drop-offs and pickups as it winds its way around town?

    How about the two locos that have vastly different motors? Can't MU them on DC. With DCC, set up a speed table for each to match running characteristics, and no problem.

    Yes, I know that model railroaders did "operations" long before DCC; but how many serious operating model railroads run on DC today? Virtually none, I'd wager.

    If you have a small layout and/or simply want to "run trains" without all this realistic operations stuff, then it probably makes no difference (and I'm not denigrating that approach - I like to do operations, but some days I also just want to watch trains roll by). But I can't imagine trying to do realistic operations on even a mid-sized layout without DCC.

    As for conversion - yes, anything made prior to 1990 is probably not worth converting. Any split-frame diesel can pretty easily be converted even if it wasn't originally DCC ready (TCS makes decoders just for this purpose). Some steam locos (the Kato Mikado is notorious) are difficult, but not impossible with even moderate soldering skills. Expensive? Well, that depends. You can get an excellent basic Digitrax decoder for $20. About the price of a Micro-Trains car. So, not cheap, and yes, if you have 100 locos to covert, a nice piece of change to do them all. So do a few at a time - one a month, or two a month, or whatever you can afford (and limit the conversions to locos you actually USE - I remember someone at a show telling me they weren't going to convert to DCC because they had 400 locomotives. I asked how many of those they regularly ran. "About five" was the answer. Sheesh!).

    John C.
     
  10. noblerot

    noblerot TrainBoard Member

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    I second this, I have N scale locomotives 20 years old I have put TCS split board decoders in with great results. I started converting a couple of years ago and have not looked back. You will love DCC I think once you try it.
     
  11. fatalxsunrider43

    fatalxsunrider43 TrainBoard Member

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    There is no doubt that to get the most out of your N loco's. DCC is a must. Here are moy only concerns, converting over 100 loc's is a MAJOR expenditure, also, no matter how much terminology is thrown at me, it just doesnt seem to make total sense. I would need to have someone close by, or relatively close by, come to my home, spend a day, and help me make the DCC wiring and decoder switchover
    make sense. Once it was explained to me, and I admitted that ,Yes, I now understand, then I'd be OK on my own, until then, I'd need a tutor. So, the cost, and the knowledge is the greatest hurdle for me.

    fatalxsunrider43
     
  12. CNW 1518

    CNW 1518 TrainBoard Member

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    For me.. being someone who is good with basic technology.. especially if its right in front of me on a computer screen.. Adding something like JMRI makes your programming so much easier..

    I get confused when Im just using a console to program decoders..

    Realistically there are very few decoders that won't accept some sort of decoder.. I'd say go for DCC.. The whole transition can be done over a long period of time also.
     
  13. TXPANHANDLE

    TXPANHANDLE TrainBoard Member

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    I made the switch 7 years ago when I revamped the room and rebuilt the layout. What brought it on? Thinking about rewiring all those blocks and switches. I went with the Digitrax Zephyr system - I love it! I do keep the Loys Toys Zephyr manual handy but would never go back. It did take a while to convert some of the older locomotives to DCC but I learned alot along the way and now maintain a fleet of about 90 locos including a number of older Kato F7's and Atlas non-DCC ready. Adding decoders was not too difficult, it just took time to send off frames for milling and then putting them all back together. I typically buy locos l/decoders and install Digitrax or TCS decoders as cost is close to the same and I know what decoder I am getting. I have yet to dabble with sound so can't speak to that.
    Getting rid of the multiple blocks, which often caused me frustration going from block to block makes the layout much more enjoyable to operate and has helped my VERY computer oriented kids more interested in the whole modeling game. A big plus!
    All in all a very positive experience for me. Given the size of my layout I can't ever see going back to DC.
    Charlie
     
  14. Jerry Tarvid

    Jerry Tarvid TrainBoard Member

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    I fully agree with having your cake and eating it too as Rick and George noted.[​IMG]

    Making the decision to buy a DCC system should be primarily based on your personal needs. Which brand to buy raises even more questions about personal suitability. DCC is not just another way to operate trains; it is another way to operate the entire layout.[​IMG]

    Ask yourself how will I use my new NCE PH Pro Radio DCC system? Could a DC system easily do the same thing? Is the “bang” worth the buck? If the pros outweigh the cons then I say go for it![​IMG]

    I went for it![​IMG]

    Jerry
     
  15. Arizona Shortline

    Arizona Shortline TrainBoard Member

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    I'm a "best of both worlds" kind of guy too and will be wiring my new layout for both DC and DCC operation. I'm leaning toward the NCE Power Cab system since it seems to have the most options for the price and comes with the walk-around controller.
     
  16. jagged ben

    jagged ben TrainBoard Member

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    I concur that there need not be a dilemma. Our club layout is DCC and DC. You could do this at home, too. The smaller the layout the easier it is. I prefer DCC, but I've been converting my locos at a leisurely pace to spread out the cost. Less than half of mine are converted so far.

    It's also not that difficult to convert older locos to DCC, either using TCS CN series decoders or fully wired decoders. It just requires a good soldering iron and some patience.
     
  17. Oleguy

    Oleguy TrainBoard Member

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    another way

    I too have been collecting N scale locos since the late 60's and 70's. It would cost me a small fortune to convert all of them to DCC, not to mention all the old not friendly frames and such. OPTION. I put a decoder inside a box car with the wires for the motor running to plug ( very small plug ) that can be plugged into a matching one on the non-DCC loco. It does require insolating the motor from the frame. Not that big a deal most of the time. I can run any of the locos I want this way.
    It lets me have all my locos without adding decoders to them.
    Give it a try.You might be able to enjoy all your oldies like I do.
     
  18. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    Why is it that DCC proponents somehow think they need to evangelize the merits of DCC to those of the great unwashed masses of analog DC. Really, you guys sometimes come off like TV evangelists. Did it ever occur to you that in the years DCC has been on the market that those who still favor analog DC do so for good reasons? Did it occur to you that maybe those analog DC'ers investigated going DCC and decided against it? Now I am not bashing DCC. I say if you want to go DCC then go. But for crying out loud let's stop the evangelizing. Is that asking too much?
     
  19. Tony Burzio

    Tony Burzio TrainBoard Supporter

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    In a club environment, DCC is only useful in a walk-around style of layout. If the design features duck-unders or large peninsulas that block walking with your train, then DCC isn't useful and indeed can be exasperating.

    As for sound, it's nice for about 15 minutes, then you are lunging for the aspirin.
     
  20. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Ummmmmmmmm...he poised the questions about DCC and he is getting some pretty sound advice.

    Lighten up...gezzzzzzzzz :tb-wacky:

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