I’m thinking of adding RIX T-C Switch Machines to my layout and I was wondering how well they work. I don’t have room for the Tortoise plus I think they are overpriced. I mentioned using the Atlas under table machines once before and was told to avoid them. I liked my Atlas C80 remote switches and if the Atlas under table machines works as well then I can live with them. I was also looking at the Peco Switch Machines, but I only know what I see in the photo and they look kind of weird. Do I have to buy something else to mount them? Is there anything else?
Peco makes an extened pin machine and an under table mouting plate. http://www.nscalesupply.com/PEC/PEC-.html
The Peco machines will not keep the points tight against the stock rails on Atlas C 80 switches because of the lack of the pressure spring. There's nothing wrong with the Atlas under table machines except for having to work upside down when installing. I would also avoid using a type of switch machine with a linkage that would not allow you to move the points by hand should the switch machine fail.
How would I know which one is which? I can't actualy look at one because I have to order everything on line and I'm buying 25, so I don't want to make a mistake. Atlas has two machines and I was looking at the deluxe model. Does that operate by hand? The thing I don't understand with the Peco, is that if I have to buy that mount as well, then I'm up the the cost fo the Tortoise and if thats the case then I'll make room.
The Peco is not so much a switch machine but just two solenoids. The Peco switches have the mechanism in them to hold the points to the rails so the switch machine does not need it. The Peco will not work well with a C80 as mentioned above, it will just bounce. The atlas switch machines can be used if you set up a capacative discharge powersupply to power them. It keeps them from burning themselves up and gives an extra kick to switch them. The tortise is still probably the best way to go for reliable operation. They take a little more time to set up but keep in mind, you can also mount them remotely and run linkage from the tortise to the turnout if you have clearance issues.
Hello. As I see, this machine havent any reed groups for frog wiring: Any turnout without electrofrogs will make a lot of headpain by stalling locos. -------- Vadim
Even with the Atlas undertable machines you may have to reach under the table to operate the machine by hand should it fail electrically. I am partial to Peco switches with their machines mounted to them. I also use Caboose 206's handthrows for switches within reach on both Peco as well as Atlas C80 switches. A member of my club built the clubs N gauge walkaround layout with Peco switches but he used a linkage based mechanism (I think Rix) that makes it impossible to throw them by hand if the coils no longer work
After installing 103 tortoises on the UPRR Geneva Subdivision (65 of them I reused from the Rochelle Sub layout), I highly recommend them. They draw very little power, are easy to install and are extremely reliable. So far I have had zero failures. They are a little pricey, but blwnscale.com has them for $157.49 for 12 which comes out to only $13.13 each. Since they can be reused from layout to layout I think they are a great investment. Daryl
JohnnyB, I've used Peco, among several other makes of track. One reason I went over to Unitrack within the last couple of years was I was finding the electrical continuity through pointwork was temperamental. Part of this was the strength or lack of it in the spring which holds the turnout blade ahead or to the branch. I've not tried Atlas, but I note from what others are saying the Peco switches don't have a spring at all, so my guess is you'd have problems there. The Peco point motor comes in different varieties, with longer or shorter pin to move the blade, and there are adapters of different sorts. For example: fitting the thing ON the board (rather than playing about UNDER, you understand) if you want to hide it under a lineside hut. From all the stuff I've read in Peco's own magazines (Railway Modeller and Continental Modeller) over the years the impression I get is that tortoise are very well regarded. Regards, Pete
Have you considered RC Servo based options offered by Tam Valley Depot and ANE Model. I have no experience with either, but they do look intriguing (and competetively priced to Tortoise). http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/ http://www.anemodel.com/
Careful with the Atlas under the table mechanism. I was told the pin is short and if you have plywood or whatever and then pinkboard, it may not be long enough. There is a company that has manual throws for under the table use, but the price looks pretty high to me. If you are going with your yard plan, you sure have a big expense in front of you, but Tortoise is the best you can get. They are a handful to install, but are good units and worth the trouble. Will it last a lifetime? I guess it depends upon how old you are.
Unfortunately, I can't speak too highly of anything besides the Tortoise. The RC servo options are intriguing but I've no experience with them.
No I haven’t thought about the RC Servo, but that looks like my ticket. I’ll have to price it out, thanks. I also thought it would be nice to use DCC decoders to control them in the future. I’ll have to investigate the RC Servo to see if I can use DCC.later on. I originally planed on Caboose Ground throws to save money but since a few turnouts were a little hard to reach, I wanted to see how much it would cost me to use remote switch machines. My main problem with the Tortoise is that to keep my layout portable I would also need the remote Tortoise mount which drives the price up to a total of $750 just for the switch machines & mounts compared to $315 for the Atlas deluxe machine. Now there are some switches that can share a linkage to lower the cost of the Tortoise expense, but I haven’t figured that out yet. I tried using Unitrack #6 turnouts, but they are too long and I end up with a 1 5/8” ladder to my staging area and I don’t want to have to modify the #4 turnouts.
I use (30)Tortoise motors, (2)Atlas code 55 under-table switch machines and (8)servos throwing my turnouts. I like them all for the situations I have installed them. The Tortoise is definitely the Cadillac option especially the DPDT switch, but bulky and a pain to install. Atlas under-table machines are nice when you need quick throwing switches (I think the deluxe model includes a DPDT switch). The servos are are super-small and take only a few moments to install, but lack a DPDT switch so you need to devise a method to switch frog power. Some servo motor controllers have relays available to do this for you. Some do not, and you can either build your own relay board or install a micro-switch to throw with the servo. Team Digital SMC4 - Servo Motor Controller with homemade relay drive board. 9g Servo with SPDT microswitch In addition to Tam Valley and Anemodel mentioned above, Team Digital also makes servo controllers. I have used products from Team Digital and Tam Valley. Read more about Servo Motor Turnout Control from my blog. Read more about the Singlet Servo Decoder from my blog. If you want DCC, you may also want to consider the cost of controlling your turnouts via each option. I have it worked out on my layout that outfitting a turnout for Tortoise control works out to about $30 ($12 for Tortoise + $12 for DCC controller + $6 for wire and connections.) and about $24 to outfit a turnout for servo control. ($6 for Servo + $12 for DCC controller + $6.00 for wiring, connections and relays.) You can probably skimp more on the wiring and connections, but I like to make all of my turnout motors modular and easy to connect/disconnect. My Tortoise Turnout Module
Yes it is a big expense. I’m using all Caboose Ground throws in the yard and service area. But I think that I at least need remote switches in the Staging Area so that it will be easier to move long trains in and out without knocking cars over. The problem is that I have 20 switches feeding the staging area, so yes it is costly. I also have 3 turnouts for my WYE entrance and 2 turnouts entering the Arrival & Departure tracks to bring the total to 25 for operating my Staging Area. I’m also still playing with the idea of using the regular Atlas remote switches and just getting it done, but I remember how disappointed I was with the final results of my 1st layout with all standard Code 80 switches. I’m still torn between Code 80 & 55. I’m trying to keep focused on the fact that the staging area is 1st and the yard is 2nd. If it wasn’t for the yard, I wouldn’t care what track to use. I think I would have to use the Tortoise if I used C55 or visa versa, because that would be like putting a Pinto engine into a Cadillac. I would like the yard to look real and I already have plans for scenery and buildings. I just can’t envision what it’s going to look like with a combination of track. I’m looking for some way to visually separate the yard from the staging area. So if I do Code 55 for the yard and service area the staging will not stand out. I thought about adding tall shrubbery or maybe a row of trees between the two. If I do change to code 55, I’ll also have the expense of replacing all the pizza cutters and I don’t have a clue as what to do with the locos. So I’m right back to where I was before with my other layout that never got built. And Greg, your setup is fascinating and I’m still studying it along with your blogs to see exactly what I need to do for my layout. I definitely want contacts even if I only use them for signals and I really like the size of the servos. But I also really need to keep the costs down. I was also thinking that I might be able to set it up so that I can easily swap devices in the future as I get my hobby allowance from the wife. I bring home the check and she pays the bills, so I never know how much I have to spend. rolleyes: Anyway here is the layout that Fotheringill was talking about for those who wave not seen it.
Have you thought about the manual Blue Point controller from New Rail Models or the Humpyard controllers from Humpyard Purveyance? Both of these use R/C parts and flexible control wires to manually control a switch from a fair distance away. Also, both have auxilary contacts for driving microswitches for frog power, signals, etc. No extra mounts, brackets are needed with these. Peter
I like the Humpyard controllers, but they are just too big for my tiny layout. They would be lined up all the way across the front and I don’t know how I’d ever remember what went where. I’d also be constantly getting caught on them or busting them off with my chair. I kind of remember hearing about the Blue Point controller, but I’ll have to look them up to check them out. I thought they were electric until I read the rest of your post. I have get up early for work so I'll look them up tomorrow, thanks.
Or a Chevette transmission in a Cadillac, which is exactly what they did for a while. The Blue Points are not cheap. If you can get a good sale on bulk Tortoises, it will only be a few bucks more for each Tortoise. Using the manual Blue Points will mean that all of your power and block controls (if DC) AND the manual throws will need to be right in front of you, on the facia adjacent to the area being controlled. You are worried about not being able to use old locomotives. The cost of milling, etc. to make room for DCC decoders will preclude DCC unless you go with newer engines. Alternate suggestion to anyone with budget restraints- Start small, leaving room for adding additional loops in the future when money loosens up. Alternate for you- Do the Caboose ground throws for the turnouts that are readily accessible to your arms and Tortoise or Blue Points for the others. Code 55-80 The wheel swap is actually pretty cheap unless you have hundreds of cars. The engines are another story. How old are the engines? The vast majority of the engines made in the last decade or more do not have the large flange wheels. I suggest you do the following for the engines- purchase one #5 Code 55 turnout and several curved sections of track. Cut a piece of MDF or plywood say 2'x4', lay down a cork roadbed, make sure you have made the tightest curve you can and put in the turnout. Power with alligator clips and see if each of your locomotives is ok on both the track and the turnout. Unless you are running VERY old engines, you should see that most of them will be quite ok with Code 55. If not, you will know immediately.
You know I think your right. It looks like the Atlas switch motors went up since the last time I looked because they are pretty close the cost of the Tortoise. I’m just going to buy a couple of Tortoise 12 Packs and some C55 # 7 turnouts to just get the staging area loops done. It’s the most important thing to me right now. I’ll just include the turnouts for future access to the yard and put the yard in this fall. I might as well do it right the first time because I’m not going to be able to afford any of this when I retire in a few years. I already have a bunch of C55 flex track and about ten #7 turnouts that I bought for another layout that I haven’t started yet. The layout shown above is actually drawn with the C55 track. It’s a little different from the C80 layout I posted earlier. Because of the difference in angles from #6 to #7 turnouts, I lost a little track length on the arrival & departure track, but I gained and extra siding next to the yard that might help. Also, I think I found someone to buy my unused C80 Custom Turnouts at a discount, but I think I’ll at least keep the C80 Flex for a while anyway and see if I can make up for the loss on the turnouts.
I agree that Peco will not do the job. However, there is another solenoid switch machine that will it is by a company called Gaugemaster (Seep) and is a PM 4. It is a self latching solenoid switch machine or point motor as they are called here. It also has power routing for frogs. They also do a PM 1 which is as above without the self latching. ie for Peco points. They also do a PM 2 which is just a straight switch machine with none of the above. And the biggest bonus is that they are cheeper than Peco machines. Also woth Peco machines you have to buy the under board mounting plate as well as the switch for power routing. Here is a cost comparison random etailer. Peco switch machine extended pin (PL10E) £5.25 Peco Underboard mointing plate (PL9) £0.45 (£2.25 pack of five) Peco Accessory Switch (PL13) £2.25 Total cost for Peco £7.95 A PM1 which does all of the above is £4.60 A PM4 with latching is £4.95 As you can see the Seep, sorry Gaugemaster, PM series are considerably cheaper plus you don't have to muck about assembling them. Now, given the current UK/US exchange rate. It would cost approx $7.60 for the PM4 as to about $15.99 for a Tortoise. Hope this helps. Cheers, Alan.
