From the Medford Mail Tribune: The waiting game continues on both sides of the Siskiyou Summit as the Surface Transportation Board deliberates the future of the Central Oregon & Pacific Railroad's operation of the line, which stretches from Black Butte, near Weed, Calif., north into Douglas County. Talks between the RailAmerica company and the Coos-Siskiyou Shippers Coalition, which could have paved the way for the West Texas & Lubbock Railway to operate between Weed and Dillard, broke down earlier this month. The matter was then kicked back to the Surface Transportation Board, which is expected to act by mid-November. "The clock is started and we're expecting to hear any week now," said Coos-Siskiyou Shippers Coalition spokesman Bob Ragon. "One of the real challenges was to find someone capable of operating the line, because CORP shut down one of the toughest parts of the line. Not just anyone can do it, so it took awhile to sort out; we're anxiously awaiting word (from the STB) and think it will be favorable." CORP hasn't run trains over an 85-mile stretch crossing the Siskiyou Summit since May 6. That forced Timber Products Co. and Roseburg Forest Products to rely on trucks between Northern California and their Southern Oregon plants. Suffering collateral damage in CORP's spat with shippers is the Yreka Western Railroad Co., which operates a seven-mile section connecting Timber Products' veneer plant and the Union Pacific tracks controlled by CORP. "We haven't had freight revenue since April," Yreka Western operator Court Hammond said Thursday. "It's damaged us, but by no means has it taken us out." The Siskiyou County short line has struggled financially for years and faced payment deadlines for both its Mikado Steam Engine and its depot property this week. Lender John Nixon of Granite Bay Loans and Investments of Rocklin, Calif., said he extended deadlines from earlier this week to Thursday and Friday. Hammond said he and private individuals will pay off the notes this week. Hammond declined to specify the additional source of funds. Hammond said his operation brought Ed Ellis, president of West Texas & Lubbock Railway, to the table with the shippers and CORP several months ago. "He has a very qualified staff from his other operations which, I believe, will assist in this operation," Hammond said. Iowa Pacific Holdings, the parent company of West Texas & Lubbock Railway, operates short lines throughout the Southwest and is headquartered in Chicago. During a similar dispute between a Texas short line and shippers three years ago, the STB allowed West Texas & Lubbock Railway to step in quickly and resume service. "We see that as a precedent," Ragon said. At this point, Ragon said Timber Products and Roseburg Forest Products would be the only shippers using West Texas & Lubbock Railway service. The STB is reviewing a request for service between Weed and Roseburg Forest plants in Dillard or Riddle and from Montague, Calif., to Timber Products mills in Medford, White City and Grants Pass. "Everyone else would continue to use CORP," Ragon said. "We're doing everything we can to expedite the process and hope it's not too late for the Yreka Western Railroad."
Siskiyou Line Why not just kick CORP out and get a company that wants to run a railroad and serve the customers. Portland & Western has done that here on the former BN Astoria line. P&W is actively going after customers and getting them to use the railroad. P&W is customer service orientated and runs the line in a way the customers get good rail service. P&W has had an uphill struggle to get customers back after BN ran them off and tried to abandon the line.
RA has all but run the white flag up, it looks like- if they cannot operate this railroad with what they have, they should step aside & let someone who can do the job. They're willing to let almost 2/3 of the line go to seed. Aside from WT&L, I wonder if this line would fit into the PNWR's operating scheme as well. Have they made any inquiries on these two line segments, if not the whole railroad?
Well, the deal feel through today at 1PM. The money just wasn't there according to John Nixon that held the notes on the Yreka Western Depot and the 2-8-2 Mikado Steam Engine located at Yreka, California. The Steam Engine #19 will now be sold at public auction soon and that may be the case for the Depot in Yreka. More details should be available next week on whats going to happen next with the YW and its assets.
Wow! Forclosure! All of us will have our fingers crossed for the survival of the YWRR. The community needs the rail service and the tourist attraction. I hope someone with deep pockets and a love for railroading ... steam in particular, will pick up the YWRR. The biggest fear is that someone will bid on it for scrapping. I'm hoping when push comes to shove the cities of Yreka / Montague and / or the County of Siskiyou will save it all. I'm thankful for the 18 + years that I was able to work there. It was more fun than I could have ever imagined, and a dream come true to be able to engineer old #19 for a couple of those years. She's a great old girl! ~sigh~
I feel the same as you Bill, except I wish I had more than just two short years of working on and with Pancho, but I am very grateful of everything that I have learned from working there and I learned alot. I'd be heart broken if we ever lost the YW and Pancho, especially Pancho.
Tim, We'll just have to wait and see what happens. The process will likely take a long time for the YW to go to auction, but I'm not so sure about the 19. I guess it would depend upon how many creditors are owed money on it. You are an excellent fireman. You were eager to learn and you learned quickly, never forgetting the safety issue of firing a steam locomotive ... not like some other who is strictly there for the "glory" and really does not pay full attention to what's going on in the boiler / firebox, but sets himself up as a prima donna. (I'm not talking about you, Bill) You fired for me only once, or twice, but you did a great job. I'd make the ride with you anyday. I believe Matt would have done well also had he had the chance to try it with the same good training that you had. Ya gotta admit, even though he's really fussy, Bill gave you guys some good instruction. I'm going to keep my thought about the YW as having the "glass half full". You never know what is going to happen, nor do we know who might take control of the operation. Hopefully, the Siskiyou line will be reopened soon so that the railroad will be more attractive as an investment. Maybe, with some good fortune, the 19 will remain at the YW, and if the gods are with us, we'll somehow be able to run her again! Keep it in your prayers.
RA only "all but [ran] the white flag up" after the Siskyou shippers decided that working with them to resolve the issue wasn't good enough. The cost of running that segment is very expensive and the lumber companies weren't shipping enough to support the maintenance demand. CORP went to them to negotiate a rate increase and they basically told them not just "no" but "abosolutely no". So CORP said that if they weren't going to help pay for 7 day service, then CORP was going to curtail operations to only 2 days a week and on demand for everyone else with a per-car surcharge. CORP has not yet embargoed the line nor have they filed for abandonment on the line. This is important because CORP will still service the line so the claims by the shippers (and the media) that they've been "forced" to move to trucking is a lie. They chose to start trucking their product because they felt entitled to service at their price and not a price for which CORP could at least break even on operation cost. The shippers also balked at the though of CORP abandoning the southern portion of the line an shipping their product to Eugene, so again, they made a CHOICE to not use rail. They were not forced and are by no means the victims here. This is not a case of the "big bad railroad" ceasing operations. This is a case of a business (the CORP) trying to turn a major loss maker into at least a break even revenue stream only to have the customers decide that their supplier doesn't have a right to make money and they do, and so they form a "coalition" to fight the "evil" supplier. One thing you guys are forgetting in this whole thing that makes it all biased against the CORP, UP, YW, & WTLR - The railroads serve customers on a contract basis. Thus if the customer has a lot of power to set the price which they receive service for. However the lumber companies have no such restrictions. They do not provide their lumber under contract to anyone, so if their costs go up, they can simply demand a higher price for their product. If the railroad's cost goes up, they have to negotiate a new contract or a contract ammendment. So, who has the real power in this situation? The people crying "foul"...
Or abide by an existing contract. Meanwhile, an essentially innocent bystander, the YW, gets bankrupted? Boxcab E50
As much as I hate to say it, I tend to think along the same lines as CAPFlyer on this issue. The Yreka Western, Timber Products, and the others involved in this situation have very real and very legitimate needs for the continued operation of the Siskiyou line's south end. However, I have yet to see anything from any of these parties so far telling me exactly how they would make a viable operation out of the south end of the Siskiyou line, especially if they are only hauling Timber Products traffic. TP enjoyed a "we're going that way anyway" rate on their traffic over the pass, and I seriously doubt that they would be willing to pay the true cost of handling their traffic. My guess is that CORP tried to do that created this situation in the first place. CORP reportedly had an operating ratio of 130% on their operations over the pass in the last couple years, which means it cost them $1.30 for every $1.00 in revenue. CORP achieved this ratio with hauling both TP traffic AND overhead traffic originating north of Medford destined for the UP interchange at Black Butte. Any replacement operator such as what WT&L/YW and the shippers are proposing will have if anything a higher cost structure than CORP did, as they would have the direct operating costs of the line PLUS the extra insurance and payments to CORP for the use of their tracks to contend with, and they would have only the low revenue TP traffic to cover those costs. If the parties can show how they intend to do this, then great, but until they do I'm going to remain a bit skeptical. Jeff Moore Elko, NV
Sorry, but the YW isn't such an innocent bystander. They interchange with the CORP and chose not to support the CORP and instead side with the belligerents in the issue - the shippers. I can't blame them necessarily since they're a large source of revenue for that operation, but they're not an innocent bystander either. They are also the party that went and brought in the WTLC into the equation. That makes them very much an "interested party" to the proceedings. The issue goes back again to cost - if the CORP was loosing money and its costs were going up and so it was loosing more money, what company in its right mind would continue operations? If the timber companies were in the same predicament that CORP was in, the result would be the same - they would curtail their operations to minimize loss. I'm sorry, but I keep getting the idea that you either don't understand or don't care to understand how a business really works and how to keep it viable for more than a few weeks. What you're loosing in this whole thing too is that if the CORP goes bankrupt, then not only does Coos Bay and Siskyou shutdown COMPLETELY, but the employees of the CORP, the other 50 or so customers and their employees are put at risk, and the economy of that entire area that is supported by the customers and railroad doing business gets put on the edge of collapse. Which would you rather have - a group of what amounts to crybaby companies who can't deal with actually paying market rates for their goods to be transported and put the economy of the region at risk for their own gain or a railroad that provides service to dozens of customers over several hundred miles of track and employs at least 100 on their own and helps keep the economy moving in that area by getting the large shipments of lumber off the road and thus less strain on the area's tax dollars?
Not to hide the news from you, but the Coos Bay line HAS been shut down already by CORP. While not abandoned, it isn't seeing any service.
I'm sorry, but I keep getting the idea that you either don't understand or don't care to understand how a business really works and how to keep it viable for more than a few weeks That is an arrogant statement- I am aware, as quite a few of us are, how a business really works. And there are quite a few of us that can keep one running, and have done so. Not an effective way to win an argument.
Wow, that's really sad news. I enjoy visiting Bill and the YW on my trips up and down California. Now we have two very nice steamers for sale, the McCloud 25 and the YW 19. The YW has been a fixture in Yreka for years. I can't imagine the city without it. :tb-sad: :tb-sad: :tb-sad:
I agree. Not how anyone carries their point at all close to effectively. Not a way to gain any respect. In fact, quite the opposite. This board has many successful business professionals. With far greater experience. Including people with significant railroading backgrounds. I'm not certain of expectations from the other side. YW is fighting for their life here. Captive to the actions of CORP, I guess they should meekly accept seeing themselves relegated to being a historic memory. YW have every right to try keeping their doors open, through seeking alternatives. So they grasp for what lifeline they might find, which is certainly no sin! Those demanded higher shipping costs, and surcharges, are a near certain recipe for failure. The shippers coalition knows it. Boxcab E50
Let's go over the timeline again - UP changes its "preferred routing" structure (again) and Roseburg becomes where CORP is supposed to send most of its interchange from. As a result, the traffic levels on the Summit line drop since not as many cars are going that way anyomre. CORP goes to the shippers and says, "Look, the amount of traffic running down south to California isn't covering our costs anymore. We need to discuss changing our rates to cover it." The shippers say "No." The CORP then says "Okay, then we're going to close the summit and re-route your traffic back to Roseburg. We won't charge you any more for it if you do this." The shippers say "we don't believe you and we're not going to play ball." They then form their "Coalition" and start crying foul to every reporter they can find about how wrong the CORP is for trying to raise their rates and that they're going to have to ship by truck which is so much more expensive because they just can't ship by rail to Roseburg first. CORP says, "Well, if you're not going to work with us, then we're going to change to on-demand service after a certain date, and we're going to put a surcharge on such operations." So we get to where we are today. BTW, let me tell you a secret about the lumber industry - they play a lot of nasty games. They sell a load of lumber to a large lumber company or a broker. The "onwer" then re-routes the shipment 2 or 3 times before it finally gets to its destination. They then charge the end user (you and me) for the costs incurred in diverting the shipment. They do this with trucks and with trains. Time has absolutely nothing to do with how much a carload of lumber is worth. It's who needs it the most, and the brokers and lumber companies do a really good job of playing that game. If they weren't still making a profit by shipping the lumber by truck, they wouldn't be shipping anything. They're playing everyone who has an inbuilt bias against the railroads for fools, and apparently they're doing a pretty good job. The railroad or trucking gets its cut of the pie for rerouting the shipment, but it's not nearly what the lumber companies can charge the yards and end users for the product.
