Shove move question

cyclenutstl May 12, 2011

  1. cyclenutstl

    cyclenutstl New Member

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    On my layout I have a long spur that represents guesstimate of 5 to 10 miles out. I'm operating it as long shove move. Empty cars up and over a 2 % grade to a sand mine operation without a run around track. The "shove platform" is in front delivering the empty cars. currently its a 5 car train. The layout is set in the modern day. A short line spun off the UP. I'm looking for general information not exact rules. But I want to get the major elements right. For example, is there a train length or distance limitation to to it? Any stories from the Pros?
     
  2. maxairedale

    maxairedale TrainBoard Member

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    When I lived in NC the CSX had a 2 or so mile long dead end spur that they would enter loco first and work. I never saw how they worked the customer at the end, but some how they got the cars spotted and pulled, must have been a short run around. They then would do a reverse move out of there with a caboose in the lead with crew on the platform using an air whistle. Train would come to a stop before crossing any roads while the crew activated the whistle. Never saw more then 6 cars on that train. Recently here in KY I saw a reverse move with about 12 covered hoppers, no caboose. Crew member climbed up into the end of the car with a radio and a flag. The loco was doing all of the sounding, at the crossings the train slowed to a stop the crew member got off flagged the crossing and after the first car was across the train stopped again and the crew member climbed back on.
     
  3. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    When I was living in Washington State, BN had trackage rights over a portion of Milwaukee Road main line and a branch. They'd come into my town, run around the train and shove it to the end of branch, less than four miles away. Even though there was a siding at that last station.

    Interesting is there was not only a caboose at trains end, but also one behind the engines. So they did not need to do any switching of the caboose.

    Why they did this shove, I have never learned. But those trains were healthy. I probably do not have photos which would allow me to count, but usually in the area of at least two or three dozen cars, or more. Box cars, bulkhead flats, centerbeams and even an occasional log car.

    Boxcab E50
     
  4. TwinDad

    TwinDad TrainBoard Member

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    Here in Lexington, RJCC has an (almost) daily run across town to serve a couple of industries...3 miles or so of track, trains hovering around the dozen car mark. Usually either a Railpower Genset or a couple of older Geeps on the head.

    They shove out and pull back the whole way, not necessarily with a crewman at the tail of the train on shoves (I haven't seen one - yet). Most of the crossings are protected with lights or gates.
     
  5. Kenneth L. Anthony

    Kenneth L. Anthony TrainBoard Member

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    Saw something like this on the Garwood District of Santa Fe about 1980. Train running "backwards" with quite a few "uncovered" former covered hoppers. Ran from a small 4 or 5 track yard at Eagle Lake on the Matagorda District, 3 or 4 miles south to a switch to the Garwood District, a branch 6 or 8 miles long ending at a sand and/or gravel pit on the edge of the Colorado River (the TEXAS one, not the Arizona one...)

    I believe I have pictures, but they are color slides and I have no easy way to scan them for display here...
     
  6. fireball_magee

    fireball_magee TrainBoard Member

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    Broomfield Co we kept a caboose there for the Longmont swither to use as a shove platform to get to industries out in Lafayette I believe?We would stop before the major road there,one to allow the crossing flashers to kick on and two to take off the derail.
     
  7. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    On the BNSF certain jobs used a waycar on jobs which had long shoving movements.
    IIRC there was an agreement that gave a mileage limit as to how far one could ride
    moving equipment ie,on the side of a freight car. Cant seem to find that particular
    passage. The G.C.O.R. rule is the one for handling cars ahead of engine in Rule 6.5.(in my copy)

    Charlie
     
  8. TwinDad

    TwinDad TrainBoard Member

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    I don't imagine it would be a whole lot of fun to ride the side of a car for any significant distance...

    Would be curious to know what the rule is... or if it evokes a story for your other thread...
     
  9. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    KCS services the Gulfport, MS Industrial Seaway complex 2-3 times a week. The route is about 6 miles long with 3 signalled highway crossings and many unsignalled industry access crossings. The 3-6 car trains are shoved in with a (MidSouth, ex-IC) caboose leading and a rear end crewman blowing the caboose air whistle at every unsignalled crossing. The rear end crewman walks the signalled highway crossings ahead of the caboose while the engineer sounds the locomotive horn. The sidings are aligned such that each customer can be switched by the locomotive after dropping the caboose beyond the siding. After switching, the locomotive leads on the way out with the caboose directly behind the locomotive, occasionally with cars following.
     
  10. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    basically, all I can tell you is that it beats walking ahead of the shove. Mostly we rode during switching moves and at Eola, we rode on "crossover" moves from East Yard to West Yard(or vice versa). In a move like that, the helper or brakeman would normally make the move. We would ride the cab until we got past a board governing the west end of Eola yard, drop off the engine and "highball" the engineer who would pull the train or cut of cars further west until the last car would be lined up with the helper. When the signal aspect displayed "Restricting" the helper/brakeman would light a red fusee,place it on the drawbar or coupler ledge, climb on the end of the car and instruct the hogger to proceed east. The helper/brakeman would give car length counts to the hogger and inform him that the crossing gates on McClure Rd had activated and were down. He would also inform the hogger if the switches were properly lined for the movement and that derails were "down".
    If there was any impedance to the movement the helper/brakeman would stop the move
    and make the corrections to properly continue the movement. When the movement was to be completed, the brakeman/helper would dismount, make a joint if necessary or apply proper number of handbrakes to prevent movement on the yard track. The red fusee would be left to burn itself out. One could do this by walking ahead of the movement, but in the interest of saving energy and getting the h**l outta there(crossovers were usually the last movement of your shift) it was desirable to ride the cars. You are trained on how to do that anyway!

    Charlie
     
  11. Burlington Northern Fan

    Burlington Northern Fan TrainBoard Supporter

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    Shoving cars Ahead of Engines

    GCOR Rule 6.5 In a nut shell states you must be in a position to safely observe to the point of movement and rely that information and distance to to be travled to the engineer, via radio or hand signals. And there is really no specific limits on the distance to be shoved. I can get a copy of the actual rule if interested. I am Conductor for BNSF
     
  12. BnOEngrRick

    BnOEngrRick TrainBoard Member

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    It could be a time claim for the conductor that has to ride the side of a car more than a mile. CSX has such a claim. So if your miniature conductor doesn't get a caboose or "platform" to ride, you may owe him some money!
     
  13. cyclenutstl

    cyclenutstl New Member

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    Hey guys !
    Thanks a lot for the input. The more I started looking into it, the more I found out there was not much out there about this subject. This validates how I have been working it. I think I'll keep operating the spur like it is. It a nice change of pace and will give me a chance to create a " shove platform" from a caboose.
     
  14. SteveM76

    SteveM76 TrainBoard Member

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    Not too far from Augusta, GA is a place called Dunbarton. It is a 13 mile shove and sand trains of roughly 65 cars are shoved in there regularly. There is a caboose (shoving platform) for the conductor
     
  15. Adam Woods

    Adam Woods TrainBoard Member

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    I once had to shove a ballast train 14 miles riding the side of the car, but it was a nice day for it. I should have figured out how to pawn that move off to BN Fan.

    Woods
     
  16. Mike Kieran

    Mike Kieran TrainBoard Member

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    The Milford-Bennington Railroad might be a railroad to look at. Here's the link:

    http://www.trainweb.org/nhrra/New-Eng-RR/NERRpt4a.pdf

    The Milford-Bennington RR operates 24 miles of ex-B&M trackage in southern New Hampshire.
    From an interchange point a few miles outside Milford, the M-B operates daily gravel and sand
    trains from a quarry in Bennington back to the interchange with Guilford. Empties head north
    and loaded cars come back. The line shuts down during the winter months when construction
    demand for gravel and sand is low.
     
  17. Dave Jones

    Dave Jones TrainBoard Supporter

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    Until the early/mid 1960's when they built a run-around track at the end of the branch, ACL five, sometimes 6 days a week ran a train caboose-first down the 9.7 mile Croghans' branch. The conductor stood on the rear platform of the caboose with its' whistle in his hand. The rear flagman for approximately the last 10 or 12 street crossings flagged all of the streets in the built-up section of the branch.

    Too bad you have to use a "shoving platform" instead of an honest to goodness caboose.
     
  18. Mike Kieran

    Mike Kieran TrainBoard Member

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    I'm using a caboose (or cabeese, I have a collection) for shoving moves on my layout since there's no runaround tracks. I plan on taking a flat car and putting a shelter on it and an old wood frame box car and making a shoving car out of it.
     

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