Yes. It's the Lewis & Clark. I couldn't think of their name, so I was referring to the geographical location. Am very happy to hear that the appropriate paint will be applied! Can't wait to see it. And HEAR it! Boxcab E50
The FA is former SP&S 866, the last FA1 built. She's owned by the Northwest Rail Museum, and current plans are for an "as built" cosmetic restoration with the future of operation if they can find a donor. The OR&N 197 is a 1905 Baldwin. She is one of four demonstrators built for the Harriman controlled lines (Erie, IC, UP, SP), originally she was built as a four cylinder compound (not Vulclain). As built she had two low pressure cylinders, rods, and crank like axles mounted between her frame rails. This was the first inside frame driven locomotive to take its power from the second axle and not the first. The mass flow of public attending the 1905 Lewis and Clark fair in Portland made it neccesary to transfer the group of four to the UP controlled Oregon Railroad & Navigation lines. One of the locomotive was displayed at a master mechanics convention in San Fran before delivery to the OR&N. In 1923 the class was "simpled" at Albina (Portland) Shops by adding a new two cylinder engine casting and Walsharts valve gear. Around this time she was renumbered 3203. In this final form, she looks very much like a SP P-1/4 class locomotive. The SP light pacifics were all scrapped, and the 197 is one of two remaining UP Pacific types. The 1904 3206 remains on display in Spokane. The 3206 was never a four cylinder locomotive. Probably more than you wanted to know! Check on the 197 link on the ORHF page for more info, including four cylinder drawings. Smokebox
The FA was converted to a Long Island power car, and her prime mover, traction motors, and everything else is basically gone. The cab is complete with original parts, but everything in the engine room is gone. But with the PA coming together, it is inspiring some "competition" to get the FA back to operation. They are looking for volunteers to help out with this project if anyone here has the desire... Smokebox
Hmmm..... a doubleheader with an RSD5 and an FA1.....even if the FA is STILL sans prime mover, that should be a diesel lashup that would make you throw rocks at SD90s! I kinda like Alcos, and it would do this poor ol' heart some good to see a vintage Alco lashup again (Nevada Northern's RS3 109 and Arkansas & Missouri's dark red beauties nonwithstanding). I checked into this thread late in the game, but if you have any more pics, please feel free to post 'em (you lucky dawg, you!! ) [ 13. October 2002, 06:18: Message edited by: friscobob ]
Unfortunately, I live far away. If I were near. I'd sure come down and help. Have some experience to offer. With other ALCo units being retired or scrapped, hopefully they can grab one cheaply for use as a donor? Boxcab E50
Quite a few people here and elsewhere have inquired about the status of Doyle's Alco PA. They moved it out that day, and here is a photo. Bear in mind that the lack of sheet metal is the condition they arrived in. The unit is now rolling on what appear to be Alco six axle trucks, though I think I heard they were not, but very similar. There has been a lot of "body work" done on the front end. Wheew! Was that ever painful. I sized the photo wrong, had to rescan, resubmit, etc. etc. [ 13. October 2002, 22:25: Message edited by: fitz ]
Can you say, "BASKET CASE"? Wow, talk about a fixer-upper deluxe- to even get it cosmetically restored, much less operable, would be a major undertaking! I know the PAs had 244 prime movers- would Doyle be adverse to getting a 251 block from a soon-to-be-scrapped Alco Century somewhere? (IIRC, I though the D&H PAs were re-engined with 251s at one time) I've only seen two other cab units in such bad shape- there were (may still be) two KCS F-units, stripped to the skeleton, at Limon, CO, on the Kyle RR line (ex-Rock Island line). It looks like the metalwork on the sides is gonna have to be fabricated from scratch.
Actually, he has a prime mover, though I'm sure not the right one. A wrecked BCR M420B was the donor. The thing sat around the W&P yard at Albany OR for quite a while and I could never figure out what the hell it was there for. I must say a FA1/PA1 double header would be damn impressive if it gets that far.
Boy, you diesel guys--I'm still a steam nut, but a PA is good. There were TWO PA's shipped to Albany. One belongs to Doyle and the other is going to a museum (Smithsonian?) and is supposed to be restored to Santa Fe warbonnet colors, cosmetic only. Doyle is going to do his in Nickel Plate colors and restore her to RUN. I don't know where the other one is or who is going to restore it. I think if you want to get something done and done right, get it to Doyle. He certainly has done a wonderful job with 4449 over the years. All of the people who throw flak at him over their disapproval of the paint job, etc. should show up and volunteer to help. He always gets the job done.
I remember all the crap that came down on the AOL railroad boards- whadda bunch of idjits! OK, so the PA wasn't delivered in NKP colors, but IMHO it WOULD be nice to see what a PA in Nickel Plate's passenger colors looks like. Oh yes, the GS4 was NEVER delivered in RWB colors, but I don't hear anybody griping about THAT paint scheme, either back in the 1970s or now. I'm more interested in listening to the folks getting their hands dirty, backs strained, and grease under their fingernails- not the P&Mers.
Guys: Both PAs are being restored by Doyle. That was the deal. If he resotred one, he got to keep the other. So one is going back to the Smithsonian in warbonnet paint, and the other will be going under NKP bluebird and wander the PNW, which will be a strange thing indeed to see. The FA has had on-again, off-again rumors of full restoration. Yes, the M420 is a donor, for the prime mover in the PA units. The trucks came, IIRC, from a C-Liner in Canada. The FA still has no donor, we shall see what we shall see. Oh and BTW, so far as I can tell, that rumored 4449 trip in December is just that -- a rumor and nothing more. If I hear otherwise I'll let you know.
Bob, As Doyle would say," The hard part's done, all I have to do is put it back together!" Honestly, the rest of the sheet metal is just that, flat sheet metal. The frame and nose are straight, and that's all that matters. Doyles "practice locomotive" was the GN F unit. It has all new side panels and a new nose skin from about the center of the number boards down. It was interesting watching how to form the compound curves on the skeleton of the F units nose frame work and have it welded into place. The PA rides on FM "Erie Built" trucks. These are very close to PA trucks and were built by the same manufacturer, General Steel Castings. Doyle picked up a wrecked MLW B unit that has a good 251 and everything else he'll need. The PA was converted to a 251 by Morris Knudson for the D&H. This will be the worlds only running PA when done. Smokebox
Smokebox: as soon as I typed C-Liner I knew it was wrong, but couldn't remember what the proper donor name was.... BTW you should know that they may not be the *only* operating PAs in the world. In Brazil there is one, and it's allready largely complete. Doesn't run yet IIRC but it's getting there fast. If I can find the site I'll post it here.
Thanks for the PA link! It sure looks like Doyles in some of those pictures. As for paint, Doyle's nose should have paint on it very soon...anticipate! Smokebox
