Santa Fe passenger equipment colors.

Calzephyr Jun 9, 2022

  1. Calzephyr

    Calzephyr TrainBoard Supporter

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    Most of the Santa Fe passenger trains after the Pullman Green heavyweights were lightweight cars in natural stainless steel or silver painted 'shadow line' to mimic the stainless steel cars.

    Intermountain/Centralia Car Shops lightweight 6-6-4 sleepers were released in a grey paint with silver roof. These cars used car names (Red River Valley, etc) instead of car numbers.

    IM/CCS, also released the same car names in the 'shadow line' scheme. I'm guessing the grey was an as delivered scheme which was later repainted to the 'shadow line'.

    Does anyone know how long the grey scheme lasted and was it used on a particular Santa Fe passenger consist.
     
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  2. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    Those were the through transcontinentals cars from right after the war. The 6-6-4 plan were bought to run through on the B&O Capitol Ltd. They started out in two tone Pullman gray, switched to a different two tone gray, then later wore either the solid gray with a silver roof, shadow lining, or both at different times. They were the only smooth side streamlined cars the Santa Fe bought after the war.

    I never heard of the Santa Fe numbering Pullmans, or naming anything else except the very first Super Chief diner.
     
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  3. Calzephyr

    Calzephyr TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks acptulsa,
    I have the two tone Red River Valley and Cimmaron Valley from this last release. I have a grey/silver Pecos Valley from a prior release. Also a 'shadow line' Whitewater Valley from the original release. It seems that these would not have run together in an original transcontinental consist.
     
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  4. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    The 6-6-4 Valley series cars were delivered in two tone gray with silver dividing stripe outlined in thin black between the two shades of gray with silver roofs. The Pullman lettering was silver with the black outline as well. Blue Valley, Red Rock Valley and Sunshine Valley never received the shadow line paint scheme like the rest of the class. The shadow line paint scheme lasted from late 1947 until early 1953 when the last cars in that scheme were repainted to a simplified two tone gray. No more black outlines on the silver strips and they were all lettered Santa Fe instead of Pullman. In the early 1960s many were painted solid light gray with silver roofs. There were also two smooth side 10 roomette 5 double bedroom Pullman cars in the Cascade series that started out in pool service until the Pullman breakup when the ATSF bought them. They started out in two tone gray but were eventually painted solid gray with silver roofs.
    img20220609_15041017.jpg
     
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  5. Calzephyr

    Calzephyr TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thank you Russ.
    Great detail on the ever changing ATSF paint schemes.
    So... now that begs the question of these Pullman 6-6-4 running in a matched consist of any of these paint schemes. Almost seems as they would normally be in some eclectic lash up of different schemes.
    Also... motive power for any of the matched consist (if they existed). Seems like steam or diesel would be used before the Super Chief and El Cap came into existence.
     
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  6. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    The Valley and Cascade cars usually ran onezy twozy in mostly stainless steel trains. If it was a minor train there could have been heavyweight cars in the mix as well. For many years the San Francisco Chief and sometimes the Chief ran with a Valley car at the very end. I believe the California Special/Texan that ran from Galveston and Houston to Clovis, NM to connect with the Grand Canyon for California at times had more than two Valley cars. The power could have been red and silver warbonnet Fs or PAs and possibly steam yet in the late 1940s and early 1950s on the Grand Canyon or Chief.

    Valley cars bringing up the markers on the Chief and San Francisco Chief.
    img20220609_21542052.jpg img20220609_21544969.jpg
     
  7. Tad

    Tad TrainBoard Supporter

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    Cal,

    If you go here:

    http://www.pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

    You can download a database of Car Construction Records in Excel format.

    Within the spreadsheet you can find specific data on individual cars.

    Over 13,000 records exist.

    The records include paint schemes and repaints.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  8. Calzephyr

    Calzephyr TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks again Russ for those details.
    Thank you Tad for the database link too!
     
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  9. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    The Super was inaugurated behind the road's first road diesel. That was a decade before these cars were built.

    Transcontinentals on the Santa Fe were dieselized with Fs and PAs by 1947. But there were substitutions for ailing power and second and third sections which kept some steam on the job for a few years yet, and overnights on other routes like the California Special, Ranger, Oil Flyer etc.
     
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  10. Calzephyr

    Calzephyr TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks again acptulsa.

    I ordered a couple of books from Amazon to follow up on this topic.

    I guess these lightweight cars were received soon after WWII ended, so some EMD and ALCo passenger diesels were available by then too. Would the diesels on these transcontinental be in Red/Silver Warbonnet... or another paint scheme?
     
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  11. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    Yes, those Pullmans came very soon after the war ended. A few passenger diesels arrived early, too--the 51 set, which were the first two PA-1s and the first PB-1 built, and the six four unit sets of the 16 Class F-3s. But the trains these cars appeared on were also still being hauled by E-3 and E-6 types, in company with the DL-107 and -108, and converted FT sets. Most rode The Chief, which wasn't officially dieselized yet. Steam still appeared occasionally. It didn't necessarily get the very best power available, as the Super and El Cap had tougher schedules. So when the FT conversions appeared, it saw more Es, and when the new power appeared, it saw FT sets.

    There is one photo of a streamliner that I first saw in a book with a 1945 copyright date, which identified the train as the Super. It's being hauled by number 50 (DL-107), a 2A class booster (E-1A), and number 1A. So some eclectic consists got cobbled together during the war, and sometimes they added up to more than 4000 horsepower. The DL-107 and -108 were the lone exceptions to the Santa Fe's aversion to mixing turbocharged power with supercharged power.

    I can count the instances of mainline trains riding behind diesels that weren't red and silver on one hand, prior to Amtrak, and all that was before or during the war. There were blue and yellow diesels with steam generators, but they were geared for 65 mph. They would substitute for ailing doodlebugs on connectors to Carlsbad Caverns or the Grand Canyon, or down the Orient line, but the road had faster dual service diesels in the warbonnet starting about 1948 (and plenty of very fast steam around before that). You would see "compromise geared" 325-Class F-7s hauling manifests on the main, and PA-1s hauling drags across Texas as reserve power (they were pretty good at it, for 100 mph locomotives with idler axles). But I've never heard of blue and yellow power on mainline passenger trains after the 167 set proved FTs could do the job during the war, and got repainted. Freight being hauled by red and silver diesels was, if not common, far less unheard-of.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2022
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